The Battle for Blogger

casseia's picture

There's been a sea change over at 911blogger over the last week to ten days. In the preceding couple of months, criticism of the anti-CD brigade had intensified, specifically of Jon Gold. In addition, criticism of the disingenuous objections to anti-Zionism at the site (i.e., Gold pretending that the word has a meaning other than support for a "Jewish" state in the former Palestine)was increasing.

Now Loose Nuke (aka Rancho Truth, paxvector, Erik Larson) is a moderator, supposedly added to the existing ones (jkeogh, oranguatan, LeftWright) and not replacing them, but unabashedly running interference for Gold by a) posting his own anti-anti-Zionist remarks at every opportunity (generally as part of a defense of Gold) and b) more annoyingly, by deleting posts. The frequency of post deletion in threads in which poster(s) was/were arguing with Gold has reached absurd levels, at which Gold must go back to edit otherwise absurd strings of his own remarks to reference the posts that were deleted. Just this morning, a comment from Robin Hordon was zapped.

I strongly encourage people posting anti-Zionist and/or Gold-critical comments at 911blogger to take screen shots. Even at a site whose "controlled" (read: fake) nature has been well-established, imo, I find the Orwellian memory hole approach to controlling discourse particularly chilling and offensive. I'd like to document it.

UPDATE: "Crime" - Political context = Utter and complete bullshit

Loose Nuke writes...
WARNING re Comments: Off topic, racism and personal attacks

The subject of this thread is about AE911Truth.org on CBC- comments that are entirely off-topic, have racist overtones, include personal attacks and/or other rules violations are being removed.

[The passive voice always comes in handy for this kind of statement, doesn't it, Loose? Rather than man up and say, "I am removing comments" you pretend the comments are simply deleting themselves, out of a sense of shame, maybe. -- c455]

Commenters should review the rules here:
http://www.911blahgger.com/rules

9/11 was a crime, and crimes are committed by people, sometimes with the authorities and resources of organizations and states. 911Blogger has always covered, and will continue to cover evidence related to the 9/11 crimes, including evidence that implicates certain people, organizations and states. Blaming 'Zionists' or 'Jews' for 9/11 is no more appropriate that blaming 'Arabs' or 'Muslims', or 'Christians' or 'Caucasians'.

http://911pimpinglihop.com
http://www.historyoflihop.org
Submitted by loose nuke on Tue, 11/17/2009 - 3:51pm.

This is a mind-blowingly simplistic reduction of EVERYTHING WE ALL KNOW about 9/11. To call 9/11 a crime and its perpetrators criminals without reference to the various apparatuses of various deep states qualifies is what I'd call Fake Truth 2.01. It was just some guys who did it. It doesn't matter whether they were Muslims, Zionists, Christian End Times enthusiasts, whatever -- they were just guys! If they were acting with the resources of a state behind them, it doesn't really matter which state. They were just Joe Schmoes (or more accurately, Ahmed al-Schmoakis), knocking over the Twin Towers rather than knocking over the corner bodega.

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gretavo's picture

what are they up to?

Well, with the KSM trial before Judge Hellerstein on the horizon, it behooves the fakers to get their propaganda all in a row. Here is a typical "it was Pakistan" thread, with Jon Gold and Simuvac playing tag team...

CIA paid millions of dollars to ISI since 9/11: Report

|

CIA paid millions of dollars to ISI since 9/11: Report
IANS 16 November 2009, 12:24pm IST

LOS ANGELES: The CIA has paid millions of dollars to Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) since 9/11, accounting for as much as one-third of the foreign spy agency's annual budget, says a media report.

The ISI also collected "tens of millions of dollars through a classified CIA programme", which pays for the capture or killing of wanted militants, the Los Angeles Times reported on Monday citing current and former US officials.

An intense debate has been triggered within the US government due to "long-standing suspicions that the ISI continues to help Taliban extremists who undermine US efforts in Afghanistan and provide sanctuary to al-Qaida members in Pakistan".

But US officials have continued to make the payments as ISI's assistance is considered critical: "Almost every major terrorist plot this decade has originated in Pakistan's tribal belt, where ISI informant networks are a primary source of intelligence."

The report went on to say that the payments to Pakistan are authorised under a covert programme initially approved by then president Bush and continued under President Obama.

"The ISI has used the covert CIA money for a variety of purposes, including the construction of a new headquarters in Islamabad, the capital. That project pleased CIA officials because it replaced a structure considered vulnerable to attack; it also eased fears that the US money would end up in the private bank accounts of ISI officials."

"What we didn't want to happen was for this group of generals in power at the time to just start putting it in their pockets or building mansions in Dubai," a former CIA operative was quoted as saying.

CIA officials argue that their own disbursements - particularly the bounties for suspected terrorists - should be considered a bargain.

"They gave us 600 to 700 people captured or dead," a former senior CIA official, who worked with the Pakistanis, was quoted as saying.

"Getting these guys off the street was a good thing, and it was a big savings to (US) taxpayers."

Another US intelligence official said Pakistan had made "decisive contributions to counter-terrorism".

"They have people dying almost every day," the official said. "Sure, their interests don't always match up with ours. But things would be one hell of a lot worse if the government there was hostile to us."

The ISI is a highly compartmentalised intelligence service, with divisions that sometimes seem at odds with one another. Units that work closely with the CIA are walled off from a highly secretive branch that has directed insurgencies in Afghanistan and Kashmir, the Los Angeles Times report said.

"There really are two ISIs," the former CIA operative said.

"On the counter-terrorism side, those guys were in lock-step with us," the former operative said. "And then there was the 'long-beard' side. Those are the ones who created the Taliban and are supporting groups like Haqqani."

The network led by Jalaluddin Haqqani has been accused of carrying out a series of suicide attacks in Afghanistan, including the 2008 bombing of the Indian Embassy in Kabul.

...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-cia-pakistan15-2009n...

Did you know that Khalid Sheikh Mohammed also had ties to the Pakistani ISI?

"Clearly, the ISI link is no mere conspiracy theory." - Lorie Van Auken



Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

 

Pakistan - 1 of 3 Big Middle East Winners from 9/11

Certain members of the ISI have long supported the Taliban and even al-Qaeda.

There was general Mahmood Ahmed's $100,000 payment to Mohammad Atta several weeks before 9/11.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO206A.html

Or how about Sy Hersh's finding that an intended air-lift out of Kundez, Afghanistan in November 2001, meant to rescue Pakistani intelligent agents, resulted in a thousand plus Taliban & al-Qaeda members also being flown out.

http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2002/01/28/020128fa_FACT

Three Middle Eastern countries have benefited significantly from 9/11 and the wars that followed, and Pakistan is one of them (Israel and Saudi Arabia the others). In 2001, the total US foreign aid to Pakistan was a whopping $3 million. The following year, over $900 million was allocated to Pakistan mainly to help the US fight terrorism (probably does not include the millions more in CIA covert funding). Pakistan is now the 3rd largest beneficiary of US foreign aid behind only Israel and Egypt. A couple of wars and well over a trillion dollars spent because US intelligence could not stop 19 rascally rabbits armed with boxcutters supported by a couple of their friends living in caves, when is America going to wake up to this neoconservative sham?

Annoymouse's picture

I have also noticed a sudden

I have also noticed a sudden influx of people to back Jon up, and replace all our deleted comments with sycophantic support.
Arcterus and Truthrock in particular.

casseia's picture

Absolutely correct

I see a bunch of rarely-sighted truthers commenting, not only supporting Gold directly, but helping to package and push the bullshit that valid, crucially important arguments are nothing but "personal attacks."

casseia's picture

Also, notice who has been blogging...

Simuvac, someone prone to LIHOPpery from way back, has been churning 'em out this week.

casseia's picture

ZOMG, what a clusterfuck

Loose Nuke has deleted almost all the comments by 911satya and declared Zionism off-topic (as well as racist) but then takes a moment to expound on his own theory of Zionism vis-a-vis 9/11, having said that he will allow no arguments!

"Whether Zionism has any responsibility for 9/11 has to be determined by a study of the evidence."

1/ 2 on topic. I'm going to address this 'Zionist' issue briefly as this thread already got hijacked, and this is such a hot button issue. I'm removing the comments that replied to this as they're off-topic. However, this issue needs to be discussed, in a thread devoted to the topic (it has been before).

911SATYA, 'Zionism' and any ideology, idea, movement, government, religion or personal behavior/choice is subject to criticism- however, arguments need to be backed up with evidence. Making vague generalizations and insinuations, w/o evidence, and going off the thread's topic is not appropriate. Criticizing 'Zionism' or the actions of 'Zionists' is not necessarily racist- but people with anti-Jewish prejudices use the term 'Zionist' as a cover.

Zionist beliefs may well have been a motivating factor for some who were involved in 9/11. However, it doesn't seem that this would negate personal responsibility for actions, unless it can be proven that Zionism makes people crazy. And publicly available evidence shows that people of US Caucasian Christian-heritage, as well as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, contributed to 9/11, and that Peak Oil, desire to consolidate power, establish hegemony in geo-strategic regions rich in energy resources were also motivating factors.

So what's the truth? Have the 9/11 crimes been solved yet? A study of the publicly available evidence may be able to conclusively solve the 9/11 crimes, but so far it seems there are still too many unanswered questions, and too much suppressed evidence. And the people involved in obstructing investigations and promoting the official myth have motivations other than Zionism

Submitted by loose nuke on Tue, 11/17/2009 - 5:11pm.

casseia's picture

The canard that cannot be trotted out enough

"Criticizing 'Zionism' or the actions of 'Zionists' is not necessarily racist- but people with anti-Jewish prejudices use the term 'Zionist' as a cover."

In other recent threads, Loose has been even more direct about his belief that anti-Zionism is almost ALWAYS a respectable veneer painted over base joooo-hatery.

So let's take a moment to recap. Zionism is movement for a Jewish national identity and ultimately for a state. To be a Zionist at this juncture in history means supporting the existence of a Jewish state in the former Palestine. It doesn't mean you have a third eyeball or torture puppies; it also doesn't refer only to people who were, like, totally psyched to see Israel roll into Gaza and crush those damn jihadis (the ones with the fireworks) using just about everything short of nukes on a civilian population. It means you believe that "Jewish" is a category of religious identity, but also NATIONAL identity. And in fact it means you're willing to cynically attempt to hide that national identity aspect BEHIND the religious one to avoid criticism and to imperil your co-religionists.

gretavo's picture

there's also the problem

As Shlomo Sand makes clear in his book that the notion on which the claim to that particular bit of real estate rests, that all non-converts who consider themselves Jews are descendants of the original inhabitants, is an obvious historical fabrication.

Keenan's picture

Eric Larson now gets to tell us what 9/11 Truth is, LOL!

I guess this pronouncement by Eric Larson makes it official.

911Blogger is now officially hijacked by this minority (Jon Gold, Eric Larson ('Loose Nuke'), Arcterus, and their fellow fakes and groupies) with Eric Larson the new spokesperson proclaiming that Erik Larson will from now on tell us:

1) what evidence means
2) what will be considered good evidence
3) what will be considered not good evidence
4) what people "really" mean when they use the term Zionism
5) what areas of 9/11 truth and related issues are appropriate to discuss
6) what is not appropriate to discuss
7) that Mike Ruppert's Peak Oil Armageddon claims are proven and that Peak Oil was a motivating factor for 9/11
8) that, even if people involved with 9/11 are Zionists, Zionism was NOT a motivating factor

So...great! I guess that means that we can all go home just let the above committee handle the rest of the investigation - the only thing left to do is to post supporting comments to whatever the Jon Gold/Larson/LIHOP clique publishes on 911Blogger and True Faction from this point on.

What a f**king joke! These clowns have just finalized the total and complete controlled demolition of Apartment 911B's credibility. They have now made themselves IRRELEVANT TO THE 9/11 TRUTH MOVEMENT. GOOD RIDDANCE!

casseia's picture

I'm also curious about some of the folks...

coming out of the woodwork to comment a lot all of a sudden. Truthrock (member for 6 weeks); J Bax (member for 13 weeks). Any others?

juandelacruz's picture

I should have screen shot

I should have screen shot that excellent post by R Hordon pointing out the Zionist involvement in 9-11. A good example of what gets deleted at 911blogger.com.

casseia's picture

I say, let's put up a blog about David Icke...

that calls his "analysis" "stunning" so that Loose Truth can respond by citing wikipedia:

"At the heart of his theories lies the idea that the world is ruled by a secret group of reptilian humanoids called the Babylonian Brotherhood, and that many prominent figures are reptilian, including George W. Bush, Queen Elizabeth II, Kris Kristofferson, and Boxcar Willie.[7]"

Some have claimed that Icke's reptilians from other dimensions is symbolic language referring to Jews due to his citation of the hoax document, "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion", however, Icke insists "that when he says reptilians rule the world, he means precisely that."

Adam Syed's picture

Adam Syed puts it very eloquently

It will be very telling if they delete his take on the situation as it is neither off topic nor racist:


gretavo's picture

when was the Big Wedding between 911B and TrueFaction?

I guess it's progress--the reason True Faction (truthaction) was created in the first place was to lure those of us who took issue with Jon Gold away from 911Blogger, which we were told was not a discussion forum (right.)  Now they realize the compartmentalization strategy did not pan out and so we see Loose Nuke aka TA's Rancho Truth become a 911B moderator, now pimping TA's Danse's "ZIHOP is limited hangout" piece.  Note how eager Loose Nuke is to encourage people to have at it, all on topic--after he frames the debate with the tags: | | | | | | | | | | |

ZIHOP as Limited Hangout by Danse

| | | | | | | | | | |

The controversial issues of Israeli/Zionist/Jewish involvement in 9/11 and influence on U.S. policies and public opinion; the exploitation/misrepresentation of the evidence by Judeophobes; and the use of these issues to disrupt and discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement, are all 100% on topic in this thread. Have at it- while observing the Rules http://www.911blogger.com/rules - loose nuke 

 

So where exactly does Danse mention Silverstein and/or Hellerstein, and their involvement in the Zionist UJA?

Chris's picture

Wow, so according to Danse,

Wow, so according to Danse, the 9/11 perps would need to get permission from the "US alphabet agencies" to pull it off? Yes Danse, you are an apologist and a shill. And to think I actually appreciated some of his "work" in the past.

Annoymouse's picture

MusMIHOP has never been limited hangout

http://truthaction.org/forum/posting.php?mode=quote&p=11311

kate of the kiosk
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 38

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 2:01 pm Post subject: limited hangouts Reply with quote
and if ZIHOP (or ZiMIHOP, as i like to say) IS limited hangout, so be it. but a necessary, and i reiterate, necessary, hangout, which we pass through in order to heal.

and, in all fairness, MusMIHOP has never been limited hangout.

...ah-ha, then there's always the BuMIHOP hang!

P45's picture

Dedicated

to all those who despise any reference to "hop".

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-oiH0V1sBU

kate of the kiosk's picture

p45 or annoymouse

how did you ever remember that?!  if it were not so sickening would be laughable how we attempt to reduce weighty thoughts and memes into accurately representative acronyms and initialisms. 

thanks for the tube

casseia's picture

And it would be sad if it wasn't funny...

but Gold has completely misrepresented this blog as evidence that WE are conducting a sock puppet war for control of 911blogger! It must be THAT HARD for him to fathom that there is a real schism between CURRENT members of 911blogger over the issues of controlled demolition (i.e. 90% support it as the central pillar of truth campaigning and 10% are trying to obscure it) and frank discussion of Zionism.

For the record, having been banned by Reprehensor, who posted a video clip of a (Federation) boot smashing into a (Klingon) face in an unintentional reverse-homage to Orwell, I have not participated in the site in any way other than reading it. I am not registered under any name there.

And for those of you who are just now figuring out that you must be one of my meat puppets (or perhaps gretavo's) because Jon Gold says so, please have your Human Resources packet available for easy reference. Paydays are the first and 15th of the month.

gretavo's picture

I also have not posted to 911Blogger...

...or voted on any content, etc. for years. are there people who post to WTCD and 911Blogger under different names? I think probably, and the reason of course is that people have been banned from 911B solely for having been known to post to WTCD.

Tahooey's picture

blogger by another name

If I had more time and energy I would have joined 911B under a different name, but I don't and I haven't.  Last time I did anything more than read that site was the same day I was banned which was the same time Cass was banned with the 'foot to face' video.  Too bad more of the "meat puppets" don't make their way here.

Scrubby's picture

me neither

i never signed up again on 911b ever after i got banned. The only forum where i ever did that in my whole life was true faction, but it wasnt really worth it.
Jon Golds conspiracy theory how every person who disagrees with him is a 'WTCD sock puppet' is just plain ridiculous, given that his LIHOP-y position is a rare one amongst real truthers. Its nice of him though that he keeps on advertising this site

Jpass's picture

I haven't posted at 911blogger

Over a year ago I was banned from 911Blogger.com by a secret moderator with no warning, reason, or response to my many e-mails. I haven't posted since because I refuse to use a phony user account that forces me to hide my identity to participate in a discussion about important issues like 911 Truth.

gretavo's picture

Erik Larson: Jews are Nasty Zionists

Larson, aka "Loose Nuke" seems to have a big problem with Jews, who he believes to be "Nasty Zionists".  Why is such a clearly hateful individual in charge of moderating at 911Blogger?  One wonders if there's any room at all in Larson's twisted world for Jews who reject Zionism--apparently not.  Is Larson himself Jewish, I wonder, or does he take it on himself to impose on others his own views on their identity and political affiliations? 

"Let's go to the HOP"

i interpreted the 'HOP" reference is as a commentary on false distinctions and bogus labels, and one that illustrates the paradigm of those that attempt to portray 9/11 as a "Zionist inside job" where the US MIC is either an unwitting, witting and helpless and/or witting and willing pawn of the "nasty Zionists" (aka Jews)

Jon, your comments frequently go into both positive and negative teens. Your "conspiracy theory" may be on target, but it's speculation at this point. Intent is difficult to establish, and not necessary; disruption needs to be identified and moderated, period. If people persist in posting comments that violate/infringe on the rules, they need to be banned. The rules create an environment conducive to constructive discussion, and make it hard for disruption to succeed. http://www.911blogger.com/rules

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

 

gretavo's picture

now Loose Nuke has segued into Prothink and Missing Links

They've gone from veiled references to us (notice they don't deign to even name WTCD) to overt references to Prothink and Missing Links, the fake jew-hatey ZIHOP documentary made by the fake ZIHOP group...

Certainly, the evidence of an Israeli role in 9/11- Odigo, the high fivers, the art student spy ring, Urban Moving Systems, PNAC Jews and other Jews in power positions- plus the influence of the Israel Lobby- have provided fodder for Judeophobes to justify their prejudices to themselves. However, it's an open question of who is really behind some of these sites; considering they're providing fodder the Establishment has used to portray and discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement as 'anti-semitic', I'm not convinced that 'anti-semitism' can explain all of it.

Reprehensor's review is an interesting case study:
"Missing Links" provides the critics of 9/11 Truth with ample ammunition.
http://911blogger.com/node/17469

 

 Of course we had already sussed out as much by the time Reprehensor got around to penning his indictment...

http://www.wtcdemolition.com/blog/node/1461

 

gretavo's picture

oh, and...

...notice how Larson throws around terms like "PNAC Jews" as if their Judaism was the issue!

gretavo's picture

Graeme MacQueen walks the tightrope...

Let's see how his reasoned take on possible Israeli involvement is greeted!

ZIHOP

I largely agree with the fine article by Danse. If we were going into this issue in more detail, we'd want to say more about "terrorism," however, and the role of Israeli elites in helping formulate the concept as we now have it. Nafeez Ahmed has done some good work on this. The "war on terror" is intimately connected to alliances between US and Israeli elites. Ahmed has especially pointed to the "Jerusalem Conference on International Terrorism" of 1979 as a key event. Participants and organizers will be familiar to us. Benjamin Netanyahu was key organizer. Shimon Peres and George Bush Sr. were among the participants. (See Ahmed, The War on Truth, chapter one). At this early stage, the Soviet Union was taken as the source of "international terrorism." This was convenient given the Cold War. Later, it proved possible to retain the notion of international terrorism as a unitary evil while jettisoning the source (SU) that had earlier been the alleged link.

There's a slight disagreement I have with Danse about how we structure the argument. I've never found it all that helpful to say: even if x didn't exist, y would probably still happen. In the present case: even if Israel didn't exist, the US would still have essentially the same policy in the Middle East, propping up whatever corrupt authoritarian regime might be helpful in the essential task of maintaining control over the oil. This could be true, but we have to do with an actually existing state of Israel and actually existing imperial collaboration. We have to study it as it is.

I believe I agree with Danse and others that there is strong evidence the Israeli MIC was involved in 9/11 in some fashion. Others have set out the case so I don't think I need to repeat it here. I think it goes without saying that we have to research this and not let anyone stop us.

At the same time, anti-Semitism (I'll use this old term here, though I don't like it much) is not only repugnant but also a great threat to the 9/11 truth movement. There appear to be some full-fledged anti-Semites in the movement as well as, probably, assorted agents whose job is to appear as anti-Semites in order to discredit us. I want to make 3 points about our situation:

1. You cannot kick people out of a social movement. But you can marginalize and, where necessary, expose and denounce them. And you can certainly kick them out of an organization with a formal membership. This is one of the reasons Scholars for 9/11 Truth and Justice drew up statements on violence and on racism: those who violate these principles are out.

http://stj911.org/nonviolence.html

2. But since attacks on Jews, culminating in the Holocaust, represent one of the low points in human history (along with assorted other genocides, wars of aggression, etc.), calling someone anti-Semitic and associating them with this great evil is a very serious matter. People can be destroyed by this name-calling, so if we engage in it we'd better make sure we've got it right.

3. Loose Nuke: I assume when you say "Zionists (Jews)" you are referring to right-wingers who use the term "Zionist" when they really mean "Jew"? If so, please make this clear. Because otherwise we play into the hands of those who wish to identify Zionism with Judaism, Zionists and Jews. Zionism is an ideology and political movement that started in the 19th century and aimed at creating (or as it sees it, re-creating) a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Since 1948 Zionism has focused on developing the Jewish state that was created. This state and the particular form of Zionist ideology that supports its present activities are, in my view, systemically racist. So it's ironic, to say the least, when we are called racists for criticizing Zionism and Zionists.

Sorry, I've got more to say but I've run out of time. Hope we can continue the discussion.

 

gretavo's picture

OK, Graeme, ball's in your court

Have you really thrown in your lot with these people?  That's what it seems like when you try to appease them.  Let's be clear about who "they" are.  They are not people who genuinely fear the evils of anti-semitism or jew-hatred.  They use these buttons instead to cover for the real criminals of 9/11 and shift the blame to innocents.  Note the way the poster below does it, to kudos from Erik Larson.  He is seriously suggesting that Arab Muslims attacked us on 9/11 because they are rightfully upset about our support for the terrorist state of Israel.  Well if that ain't having your cake and eating it too!  So Israel is really bad, uh huh, but NOT so bad as to attack its "sugar daddy" - only Arabs and Muslims let their anger get so out of hand!

Get it straight, Graeme, because your credibility is on the line.  The fraudulent charade that is 911Blogger is exposed.  It is very clearly a tool of those who wish to maintain the ridiculous myth of Arab Muslims being behind 9/11 that YOU KNOW is false.  Why continue to associate yourself with such a hate-filled site?  Why play into the ridiculous notion that being skeptical of the official holocaust narrative is somehow worse than promoting a bogus 9/11 narrative that is serving to MURDER MILLIONS TODAY?

 

OCT motive is a lie

Motive- "they hate your freedoms"

There probably wouldn't have been a 9/11 if terrorists didn't drive out the British in Palestine in the 1940s with terrorist acts. Those terrorists were zionists, and Israel was founded by zionist terrorists and is still to this day terrorizing Palestinians. The Balfour declaration of 1917 was not intended to make a Jewish/Zionist state. And the British made this very clear in 1939 when they said this.....

"His Majesty's Government therefore now declare unequivocally that it is not part of their policy that Palestine should become a Jewish State. They would indeed regard it as contrary to their obligations to the Arabs under the Mandate, as well as to the assurances which have been given to the Arab people in the past, that the Arab population of Palestine should be made the subjects of a Jewish State against their will."
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/brwh1939.asp

So Zionist terrorists attacked the British and when they left they attacked the Arabs and declared their state. They did it with terrorist groups such as Lehi (group)
"The British called it the Stern Gang, after its founder, Avraham Stern."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lehi_(group)

and Irgun..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun

Future Presidents of Israel such as Yitzhak Shamir, and Menachem Begin were members of these terrorist groups, so forgive me if I find it a bit of a double standard when Hamas is elected by it's people but it doesn't count because the earlier "terrorists" don't approve of the latter day "terrorists".

In 1980 Israel even came out with a military ribbon celebrating these terrorists that founded their racist state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:LehiRibbon.jpg

Does anyone really believe the Zionists want a two state solution and peace with the Palestinians? It's pretty obvious they want no state but an Israeli state. The biggest supporters of this are evangelical Christians who don't know how to read their own Bible and were a big support base for the Bush Administration.

This is a fact. If you really want to discuss the root and cause and therefor solution to "Islamic terrorism" the Israeli- Palestinian issue has to be discussed and settled. But in America we are not allowed to discuss it. And I think that is what rubs some people "in the movement" the wrong way. They (and we) are already stiffled enough by the MSM.

According to what we've been told ever since the day of 9/11 until now was "we were attacked because they hated our freedoms". This is outrageous, and is clearly ALSO an attempt to stifle the real cause of this type of terrorism. Every one of the so called hijackers made a video and they made it to say, very clearly, why they wanted to attack America, and they all said the same thing, because of the imperialist actions of the U.S. Government and it's unwavering support of Israel. Think Bush(or his advisors) never saw those videos? Come on. So they tell you they attacked because of you. You like freedom, and they don't. Better than telling the truth. "America was attacked today because your Government interferes in the affairs of other countries and supports a racist terror state in the middle east". They want to keep us uninformed and stupid so the American people can continue to be pawns in this Israeli- Palestinian fight.

I believe some people realize all this and then fall into this particular rabbit hole and don't crawl out. Because yes, 9/11 benefitted Israel, yes we have those "dancing Israelis", and the mossad tracking the hijackers, but you have to be pretty blinded by racism to ignore Saudi Arabia and their involvement. There is much much more evidence on the involvement of Saudi Arabia. Bandar Bush was sitting right next to the President just before and just after 9/11 and was paying the hijackers babysitters, then helped get the Saudis out of the country. The American Government is to blame for 9/11, not Israel. Israel isn't going to stop it, why should they? It would benefit them. And it would benefit the Military Industrial Complex as well, and is the new "Pearl Harbor" mentioned a year earlier by the PNAC boys. There is enough blame to go around including some on us for not paying attention before 9/11 happened.

Critizing the Government of South Africa for it's treatment of native people doesn't make one a racist anymore than critizing the government of Israel and their treatment of native people. There are some who want to blame the Jews for 9/11. There is nothing we can do about that, other than point them out and say "they don't speak for me".

good points, relevant history

The US's generally unqualified support for Israel despite it's human rights violations against the Palestinians (as well as US support for tyrants in the Middle East) have long been cited by Islamic radicals as justification for terrorist acts. This was the thesis for Ray McGovern's recent article, "Shining Light on Roots of Terrorism" http://www.consortiumnews.com/2009/111509a.html

These polices have worked well as a recruiting tool for 'terrorist' patsies for use in 'false-flag' attacks. Israel supported the rise of Hamas, has used Hamas to justify hard-line policies, and Israelis have even been caught posing as Hamas. http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timelin...

In addition, the development and organization of the 9/11 plot is most readily explained in that context- scroll down- see "Possible Al-Qaeda-Linked Moles or Informants", "Other Al-Qaeda-Linked Figures", "Geopolitics and Islamic Militancy", "Pakistan / ISI: Specific Cases" and "Terrorism Financing: Specific Cases" http://www.historycommons.org/project.jsp?project=911_project

It should be noted that while some Zionists are essentially Jewish supremacists, not all are- and certainly not all Israelis and Jews. And among the Palestinians, there is also a wide range of opinions: http://www.pcpsr.org/survey/polls/2009/p33ejoint.html
http://www.kas.de/proj/home/pub/19/2/year-2009/dokument_id-15978/index.h...

Wikipedia defines Zionism merely as "the international political movement that originally supported the reestablishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine. ... Since the creation of Israel, the Zionist movement continues primarily as support for the modern state of Israel." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

jimd3100: "There are some who want to blame the Jews for 9/11. There is nothing we can do about that, other than point them out and say "they don't speak for me"."

911SATYA: "1. You cannot kick people out of a social movement. But you can marginalize and, where necessary, expose and denounce them. And you can certainly kick them out of an organization with a formal membership."

Point out, expose, denounce, isolate, marginalize those who are bringing discredit on the 9/11 Truth Movement, and who are disrupting it. The vast majority of activists are not causing problems.

As I noted in my above comment, some of the blaming is likely being done by Judeophobes, but I'm really skeptical ALL of it is, seeing as how it- and Holocaust revision-claims- have been used to disrupt and discredit the 9/11 Truth Movement, and prolong the cover up- in much the same way 'no planes', 'space beams' and the controversy over 'what' hit the Pentagon have been used.
http://911review.com/denial/holocaust.html
http://911review.com/denial/antisemitism.html

http://911reports.com
http://www.historycommons.org

gretavo's picture

imagine if someone wrote this...

"there are some people who want to blame all the problems during Prohibition on Mobsters (aka Italians)"

Anyway, it does seem that very few people at 911Blogger have much of an interest in Larson's bigotry judging by the dearth of commentary on his and Gold's posts...

gretavo's picture

Jon Gold responds!

In typical schoolyard fashion.

 

I AM NOT A ZIONIST!!!

I AM A HUMAN BEING!!!

BTW... If it isn't obvious to anyone else at this point, it is to me. A certain site that we all know and hate are currently in a "battle for blogger" by using their sock puppets that they probably created a long time ago to vote down everything good, and vote up everything bad, and to promote the nasty Zionists, etc... they heard that Reprehensor gave up the site, and are trying to re-establish themselves. Eleusus/Keenan who was caught is just one example. Clearly he is not the only one.

Thanks for writing this danse (though I despise any reference to "hop").



Do these people deserve to know how and why their loved ones were murdered? The facts speak for themselves.

 

http://www.911blogger.com/node/21900#comment-222061

Apparently Jon thinks "Zionist" is meant as an insult suggesting some kind of inhumanity. Now I know we've asked this question many times but here goes again: Is he really that stupid, or is he pretending not to understand what a Zionist is? A Zionist, Jon, is someone who supports the existence of a Jewish state in Palestine. It does not make someone a monster in itself any more than opposing such a state makes one a monster. Most anti-Zionists have studied the history of Zionism and found that in its current manifestation it is an unjust and dangerous ideology that has motivated people to commit crimes against humanity. In this and in its insistence on defining itself on racial/genetic grounds (however false those grounds may be) it is the closest thing that currently exists to Hitler's national socialism in Germany. That such a regime and its partisans around the world should be scrutinized for their very possible involvement in 9/11 should come as no surprise, and to dismiss such scutiny as motivated purely by ill will towards the people that regime claims falsely to represent is the biggest giveaway of your own ill intentions.

Allende Admirer's picture

Sock Puppet or Muppet Show?

I can only answer for myself, but I started commenting at blogger the day NYCCAN announced it was giving up on its attempts for reinvestigation, (about 6 weeks ago?). I Felt I had to give one last effort before 911 truth becomes tommorow's JFK assassination.

I asked where could the movement go, I asked if there were any links or ambitions to 3rd party politics, I was instantly pounced on by a condescending Muppet called Metamars who repeated his mantra several times that 911 is a "taboo politically". I later googled & found this same guy on a Jref forum listing chemical equations the size of a novel to 'disprove' nanothermite.
Later on that thread when challenged by a chemist he admitted he did not know what he was talking about but hey the equations looked good for a while eh?

Next I questioned an article on Bin Laden's son,who talked about his fathers terrorism. I asked why this was on the front page at Blogger and was put in my place by The Iconoclast who told me that have to start where we are in most agreement with the OT as a stratagy for the truth movement.

I had still never heard of WTCDemolition.com when I encountered a Mr Jon Gold who was making grandiose claims that the movement has to change the way it was perceived, in particular by not concentrating on CD which was "not as valuable or conclusive as I thought", and "you have to be a structural engineer or physicist to understand CD".

When I tried to engage Mr Gold with discussion on his ideas, he ignored me. He then started publishing hundreds of links on Blogger to his FACTS, which I felt was a very poor representation of the most damning evidence.

When he then started boasting "Look my FACTS are No 1 on Hits at Blogger" I was overcome with a red mist and started attacking this muppet and the dangerous and wrong things he was saying. It was at this time I searched Google for nfo on this goon and found this site, which only confirmed all the things I had already ascertained in 2 weeks interaction with the muppet show formerly known as 911 blogger.com .

casseia's picture

Smug as a bug in a rug

The man of many pseudonyms (Rancho Truth at True Faction) writes, regarding his brilliant move at 911blogger:

Rancho Truth

Joined: 12 Jun 2007
Posts: 206
Location: Washington, DC

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2009 3:19 am Post subject: Reply with quote
Bump. I've cross-posted this article to 911Blogger (thx, Danse):
http://www.911blahhger.com/node/21900

After seeing one too many threads get hijacked and disrupted by snide, evidence-free insinuations about Jews (oops, i mean 'Zionists') doing 9/11 and controlling the US, I'm on a mission to flush out and drive out the real- and fake- 'anti-semites' who've been doing it. This and the question of 'what' hit the Pentagon seem to be the 2 remaining wedge issues, now that 'no planes', 'space beams' and the like seem to have been fairly successfully marginalized.

So far, even though I've made it clear all things Jew, Zionist and Israel are on topic, no 'Jews did 9/11 and AIPAC rules' promoters have shown up to disrupt the thread- oops, I mean 'defend their views'.

Why does 911blogger tolerate -- as a moderator!-- someone who so clearly hates Jews? Even when Christian Zionists are mentioned, even when non-Zionist Jews are mentioned, Rancho Truth/Loose Nuke CONTINUES to equate Jews and Zionists, thereby tarring all of the adherents of a religion with guilt for actions that should be attributed to a racist, colonialist political movement. This level of bigotry is simply appalling.

casseia's picture

And what's more...

Notice the overarching agenda implied here: he's going to "flush out" not only the anti-Zionists but the people who "deny" that a large Boeing hit the Pentagon. The two remaining "wedge issues" -- the last remaining impediments to a complete LIHOPization of 911blogger.

gretavo's picture

It's pretty clear what has happened...

The True Faction gang is essentially taking over 911Blogger. I guess people aren't supposed to notice that's what's going on, and frankly most people who haven't been paying close attention to truth movement politics for a while may not even understand what it means for that to be happening.

To make a long story short, their goal is to turn 9/11 truth into a LIHOP movement--one that preserves the myth of a global Islamofascist menace. 9/11 Truth means nothing at all if at the end of the day people can say "There are evil arabs and muslims out to kill us, and 9/11 proved the old way of defending ourselves doesn't work anymore." That's it. Forget about any debate over whether or not the Bush administration, military industrial complex, or our reptilian overlords were asleep at the wheel, whether they wanted it to happen and so subconsciously failed to act, or whether they in fact aided the terrorists. None of those approaches to the mysteries of that day will amount to any change whatsoever in the "status quo post-9/11".

Truthers who make the mistake of not forcefully denouncing what is going on at 9/11 Blogger are dooming all of us to an endless argument with Chomsky and his followers over whether "Bush and Cheney were really that evil and why it matters if they were, since we've always known them to be anyway." Truthers who make the mistake of not forcefully denouncing what is going on should not be surprised when all the people who claimed not to believe controlled demolition was "our best evidence" suddenly start to go even further and say "it's unproven" or "unprovable" or "just plain wrong, a hoax to mislead us from the real truth". It will happen.

It's way past time for responsible, credible figures in the truth movement to make a break similar to that made by Steven Jones from Jim Fetzer when the original Scholars for 9/11 Truth split in two. We need new forums, new associations, and a new willingness to forego a false sense of unity in favor of a sharp and well-defined focus on what the real issues are.

Scrubby's picture

...

911blogger is a joke, just not a funny one.
How could anyone even become a 'leading truther' who spends alot of his time 'moderating' other peoples comments when hes honestly thinking LIHOP is what happened or anywhere near it? If those 'incompetence or maybe worse' views would be anywhere near reality, i would actually agree with Chomsky: theres more important issues really, lets move on. Its a waste of time. 'Probably LIHOP' is what i thought from 2001 to ~2005, and i didnt really care that much. I think its (still) the mainstream view here where i am, and i never ever met anyone holding that view who actually cared. Which i totally understand. What a waste that would be

gretavo's picture

LIHOP enjoying a renaissance at 911Blogger

 

Agree 100% with the statement. The civil, open trial is benefit

Now to the sheik. He has something against him that should bring him at least life in prison. And that is badly mistreating and factual killing / 'his hands'/ of American hostage journalist Daniel Pearl in Pakistan.

As to his 9/11 testimony, under the duress of quasi torture, that has almost no real value. He might have wished 9/11 attacks to happen, and might have helped organize them, even though the directly responsible are dead with the airplanes.

All Arabs involved in the 9/11 inside operation attacks probably never knew, and do not know now, that they were aided, allowed, and helped by inside forces. ... Without that, no 9/11pretext for war inside job controlled demolition would have happened.

Many Arabs, former friends of USA, started to hate US after bombing apart and occupation of Iraq 91-03. That is not a crime, however, 1.. they cannot plan and carry out terrorist actions, 2.. USA should not use /genocidal/ force in foreign policy and occupations., 3 .. US should prevent known terrorist planned actions, and NOT use them to carry out inside false flag ops on the US soil.

http://friendfeed.com/911Truth

gretavo's picture

Arabs this, Arabs that...

Methinks me knows what "PetrBuben" is all about.