It's Official - Ron Paul is No Friend to 9/11 Truth
Paul on the Government and 9-11 - Reason Online
He blames 9/11 on the fact that the government was allegedly in charge of airport security. I see. So if the airlines and airports had hired private security companies, like ICTS, then the world trade center would not have been demolished. But wait--they DID! And wait--it WAS! Maybe if you did your frikkin job as a Congressman and actually spoke out about the obvious fraud perpetrated on the people you claim to be serving you would not have to make such stupid statements to score ideological points.
From all of me to all of you - SCREW Ron Paul, Once and for ALL.
For truthers to continue to support this sack of cowardly and dishonest shit is appalling. Warning to those who will drag out the tired old clichés about how "he knows but can't say"etc. etc. NOBODY who knows and understands the truth about 9/11 would be using the bullshit hijacking fantasy to push a political agenda. Ron Paul is finished as far as I'm concerned. Done. Kaput. Put him on the list with the rest of the perps' apologists.
He's been completely OVER for me for a while now...
I was willing to tolerate some of the other hypocritical crap (like, keep the government out of everything except my uterus) but it became clear to me early this fall that he's no frikkin' Truther.
But then, this leads to interesting questions -- I guess maybe I should set up a poll. I think that if I decided to go ahead and vote, rather than abstain in protest, AND it was not possible for me to vote for Cynthia McKinney AND Hillary was the Dem nominee and by some extraordinary fluke Paul was the Repug, I would vote for him.Â
let's be clear
Paul would seem to be no better or worse than any other OCT apologist at this point. Hillary Clinton however has a lot of splainin to do as to her connections to the events and personalities of 9/11 given that she is the junior senator from New York and a major beneficiary of certain billionaire landlords... Of course no one is suggesting that truthers should support Hillary, so we need not even go there, but I think the time has come to put the question to pro-Paul truthers: Why the f***?
In a sense he's worse than other OCT apologists
because he was deliberately coy about his stance on 9/11 until a bunch of truthers got on board -- in other words, I'd take Bill Clinton's "how dare you, how dare you" crap over Paul's vague desire for a new investigation.
Actually, BJ's "how dare you"...
Has to rank among my favorite hypocritical utterances in history. How dare WE Bill? The man finally reached rock bottom. Comeback kid? Come again? Nope. Don't go away mad, Mr. Clinton, just go away.
My impression of those
My impression of those campaigning for Ron Paul has been that they are predominantly motivated by an attachment to Paul's brand of Right-wing economics rather than moved by 911 per se. The typical Ron Paul supporter maintains an idealized view of the 19th century US economy. Rather than recognizing this as a dynamically expanding economy full of social tensions which could only be released by continually expanding to the west and conquering more and more land from the Indians to be opened for capitalist exploitation, the average Paul supporter refers to this era as if the US were a territorially stable republic. The implication passed on is that it should be possible for us all to return to this early form of capitalist economy that existed in a technically undeveloped world. Questions about "911 truth" are sort of made subordinate to that larger goal of somehow going back to the way things were.
Although I reject Paul's conceptions of how real economics has developed, I do agree with the Paul supporters that 911 should not be made into the single all-deciding issue when judging whether or not to vote for a candidate or to otherwise sit out the election. 911 as a form of extra-electoral activism is important, but real discussions about government and economy which attempt to lead to the growth of a new party can not be primarily based upon 911 alone. For that reason one should be prepared to vote for candidates, assuming that one decided to vote at all (sitting out the elctions is not necessarily an indefensible position, though I choose not to adopt it), which may not pass muster as fully as one would like on 911 but which meet some minimal criterion on that while otherwise adopting general positions which one supports. Any really significant type of "911 truth" activism is likely to remain outside of the ballot box however.
If the Socialist Equality Party runs candidates in 2008, as they did in 2006 and 2004, then I'll cast a vote for them. Specific criticisms have to be made however. Their position on 911 has always been restricted to LIHOP. Actually when they first came out with their LIHOP stand just a few months after 911 it almost seemed pioneering for that time, but their stand on 911 is pre-historic if measured by today's standards:
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j16.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j18.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j22.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jan2002/sept-j24.shtml
Despite this very basic weakness, their overall position in 2006
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2006/sep2006/prog-s28.shtml
and 2004
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2004/sep2004/prog-s20.shtml
http://www.wsws.org/us2004/candidates.html
did a good job of addressing the most general issues. As long as people don't fool themselves about the need for something like 911 to remain an extra-electoral issue and don't start falling over the panacea of a "911 truth candidate," I see nothing wrong in casting a vote for candidates who don't come through all the way on 911 but pass a basic minimal standard on that issue while otherwise advocating a good general agenda. If for some people this mode of logic leads to support Ron Paul then I'd rather identify the source of difference here as relating to more general political differences that I have with them, differences which should be recognized clearly, rather than blasting them totally over Paul's stance on 911.
But actually, it is pretty pathetic the way that Paul has charged the US government with Paul has accused the US government of maintaining legal preferences for terrorism suspects (I don't think he means dancing Israelis):
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/articles/112/effective-and-practical-counter-...
Hello, Guantanamo?
Oh boy, contracting private citizens to go after Osama:
http://principledpolitics.blogspot.com/2007/07/ron-paul-reintroduces-bil...
Paul sucks all around apparently.
the problem with Paul (another one)
is that privatization amounts to piratization. Outsourcing government does not lead to more efficiency, it only leads to less oversight possible through the democratic process. What Paul has done is tapped into some legitimate three-letter grievances (the war, the Fed, the IRS) and set himself up as a savior of sorts to people who share those concerns. His solutions are hardly solutions, though. His support of gold-backed currency is totally at odds with one of his supporters' favorite documentaries, The Money Masters, which exposes the problems with gold-backed currency (for starters, you can ask Ron Paul supporters just who they think owns all the gold in the world, and where it actually is?)
I consider 9/11 to be a litmus test of honesty, intelligence, and courage. If a politician does not have those qualities he or she will be unlikely to have an appropriate position on the single most important issue in our lifetimes and tehrefore neither deserves nor will get my vote, period. No lesser-evilism here (fool me once, can't get fooled again.) As time goes by, those who continue to be silent on the problems with the OCT I will consider to be either an idiot, a coward, or a criminal--or a combination thereof--who is part of the problem and will never be part of the solution.
Extreme? Yeah, I know. I recommend it.
I prefer the term "radical"
which is lovely, as it stems from the latin word for root -- which most definitely is where problems are best tackled!
"I consider 9/11 to be a
"I consider 9/11 to be a litmus test of honesty, intelligence, and courage. If a politician does not have those qualities he or she will be unlikely to have an appropriate position on the single most important issue in our lifetimes and tehrefore neither deserves nor will get my vote, period"
Rigghhht. And the reason I am no longer a Paul fan.
Which candidate would stand up to AIPAC?
is there anyone really out there??
only Gravel, unfortunately, who does not have much of a chance, now that all the 9/11 naives gave their dough to Paul. If Mike only had had that support...
Kucinich? is he still LIHOPPING?
This is an interesting
This is an interesting anecdote that I didn't expect. Supposedly Ron Paul
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http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/Ron-Paul-presidential-campaign-fed-sound-...
coauthored The Case for Gold with Lewis Lehrman, who also served on the Commission. Lehrman became a National Humanities Medal recipient in 2005.
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If the profile is correct then supposedly the same Lehrman who
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http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1263
authored the 1993 book Real Money: The Case of the Gold Standard, and has published articles in Harper’s, the Washington Post, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, National Review, and Policy Review.
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has also been with the
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http://rightweb.irc-online.org/profile/1263
Project for the New American Century: Board of Directors
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I imagine that if any other candidate was found to have written a book with someone from the PNAC, Board of Directors, it would at least stir some questions.
let's stir it up good
This is one site where criticism of Ron Paul will not be seen (inexplicably) as heresy within the truth movement. In fact the more I think about Ron Paul and his gold standard, internet fundraising, etc. the more I think of him as the Howard Dean of the 2008 election. Get everyone all excited about an astrotu--er, grassroots campaign and then pull the plug on the whole thing. In fact, the entire idea of a currency backed by gold benefits only those who have a lot of gold. I just saw a creepy commercial the other night about a website that offered to buy your old gold jewelry. Someone is hoarding gold much as it was hoarded by FDR during WW2 (details needed--see The Money Masters) For that matter, no one really knows how much gold if any is actually left in Fort Knox. And then there's the gold apparently stolen from the WTC on 9/11.
Basing currencies on gold transforms gold from just a pretty, ductile metal into an officially fetishized commodity. That is the whole problem with the Re-love-ution, people are getting caught up in nice sounding rhetoric and taking the bait without realizing that there is a hook that will be reeling them in somewhere not so good. I don't think he can be elected president but I think that the gold issue will live on thanks to him (and after he disappears like Howard Dean) because gold is a big part of someone's plan to put into effect the "golden rule".
Chalk it up to the 9/11 razor. Ron Paul lies about 9/11, why should he be trusted about anything else?
More of Ron Paul Promoting OCT...
OK, Paulistas, what gives? How much of a coward or an opportunist does one have to be to a) go on Glenn Beck's show and b) promote the OCT? At what point can we expect the good doctor to come out as a truther? Once he's elected? Never?
Governor Blagojevich (IL-D)
i didn't know where to post this so under the 'ron paul sucks' thread it goes. i was walking a four-legged friend today when i got the chance to ask IL gov. blagojevich about 9/11. he happens to live in my neighborhood and was on his daily jog with a police officer trailing on bicycle. "governor! why won't you help expose the 9/11 cover-up!"  i guess i kind of caught him off guard so he circled around and jogged back to me. jogging in place, he responded, "9/11 cover-up? i completely agree with you, but no one will listen to me. there's only so much.....it's frustrating, but what can we do?" he then immediately turned around and continued to jog, but not before i yelled, "well, let's start with AIPAC!." no return comment from the gov. i will be printing out Lazlo's 'wired for terror' and hand-delivering it to his security detail parked outside his residence 24/7. hell, maybe he'll join wtcdemolition.com and become an internet pal with all of us. based on his approval ratings as of late, it probably couldn't hurt.
That rocks...
Good work, Larry Horse!
absosmurfly
speaking of four-legged friends I saw someone walking a three-legged version of one yesterday at work. few things are as heartbreaking and inspiring at the same time as a dog with fewer than four limbs going about its business. and yes, i've seen the amazing video of the pooch who goes around everywhere hopping on its hind (only) legs so please no one post it because it will make me cry... this maudlin overwrought compassion used to extend to inanimate objects when I was a child and still does in some cases, like stuffed animals that have been thrown out... i'm going to stop now... :( :(
(((gretavo)))
I can relate.
WTCDEMO SUCKS! I LOVE Ron Paul and Alex Jones!!
I cant believe how stupid you people are. its ovious that Ron Paul cant say what he really thinks. You should study the work of Alex Jones. I love AJ even though he is scared to admit that that no planes were involved in the space based destruction by the NWO (the leader of which is the Bush family who invented Hitler) Anyway you guys suck. LIHOP is the real truth and you know it!!! I'm going to go drink my urine now.
oh no! another mega disinfo shill!
You know, MDS, you may think you're really cool coming in and trash talking us, but in fact you make us all here look very good and erudite by comparison. You're just the sort of person I would EXPECT to be a big fan of Alex Jones and Ron Paul. Geez Louise, people, just look at the kind of nut who is into AJ and RP. I guess if you're trying to raise money online this is the kind of dupe you look for and target your message to... Begone, Mega Disinfoshill! Go BACK to Prison Planet! Go BACK to your rLOVEution!! Go BACK to Uncle Fetzer and Mark Dice! Leave us normal, intelligent people alone already!!
piss off, "real" truther!
Arabesque and Jondoeremi are totally right about you--you are a COINTELPRO agent trying to divide the movement by calling people "LIHOP" just because they don't buy your demolition THEORY. It's a good thing that there are honest people like them exposing the likes of you! You keep on saying that what hit the Pentagon wasn't AA77, just to make everyone think we're all anti-semitic kooks. We're on to you!!!!! you wont drag the movement down with your disnudity tacticks. you peice of crap!
your ship is sinking, bye
your ship is sinking, bye bye MDShill!
"disnudity tacticks"
huh?
you're an asshat. Â
wear it proud, cuz you're about to get banned.
hmmm... Mega Disinfoshill?
I feel I should step in here and, in typical paranoid fashion suggest the possibility that Real Truther has created the Mega Disinfoshill persona in order to "attack" himself, thereby making himself look more credible by comparison, and to discourage people from supporting anything that MDS claims to support... >kof kof< ;)
Wasn't that obvious?
Why the avatar? It's no red herring, after all.
go ahead bruce, take gretavo's side,,,
This is like when Gret issued that Debunkerport warning on a roll of toilet paper and signed my name to it and you went on all the truth internet radio shows to call me out as a disunifying subversive. That hurt, man. It really hurt. Now you're siding with him again pretending that Mega Disinfoshill is a sock puppet of mine? Nice. You're doing your paymasters proud!
EDIT- forgot to say that what you're doing is beyond the pale. had to make sure to get that in... not IN the pale--BEYOND the pale!!
be quiet, Keenan!
I mean, Gretavo... Oh wait never mind, *I'm* Keenan--oops. Um yeah, so that's a pretty outlandish accusation Gretavo. Suggesting that I would create a fake enemy to attack myself online and garner sympathy from people while at the same time implying suckiness by association with others is beyond the pale, even for me--er... you. Your reckless speculation is causing a rift in the spacetruth continuum that threatens to tear asunder the very fabric of reality and false unity. Have you left no sense of decency, Gret? At long last, have you left no sense of unity? That's it, I'm quitting the movement. You all won't have RT to kick around anymore. Now, you can all go ahead and tell me how I shouldn't, and list all the great contributions that I have nobly made to the cause, but my mind is made up. For real this time. Like, REAL real. >kof kof<
Aww. Guess we won't miss you -- for long
As long as there still is glory in playing the grand unifier, or reiterating your grand contributions, you're bound to return ;-)
Now would you please excuse me while I'll go get my paycheck.
Hi Mods
I have found this a fairly civil place to post and dialogue 9-11 related issues in the past. No forum is immune to trouble makers, and it appears now that this is the case here at the wtcdemolition.com forum.
I am speaking of the obvious attempt at stirring up trouble by the poster known as Real Truther. As you can seen from his rantings above, Real Truther is engaging in divisive and disruptive behavior. This started with replying to MDS's original posting with an off topic diatribe promoting the outrageous idea the MegaDisinfo Shills are used by the more subtle disinfo shills in order to make the latter more credible. This was not the subject of this thread. Rather, the subject of this thread is one specific piece of dis-info promoted by many, who use it to justify Real Truther's personal outrageously divisive theory that the most important part of the 9/11 official conspiracy theory - namely the Terror that was visited upon our great nation on the morning of 9/11 in the form of highly skilled, technological, and acrobatic fanatical suicidal Muslims that are the personification of evil - is full of holes.
In two replies on this thread, Real Truther has done several dishonest and divisive things, including trying to bait me into an argument, which would draw others in, and waste valuable time. Above, I stand accused of being someone's sock puppet and of many other nefarious deeds.
If I have done the above, someone please point this out to me (I know at least 3 people already have, but I'm going to pretend that they haven't).
On the contrary, these seem to be the behavior exhibited by Mr. Real Truther. In two short postings to this thread, he has managed to not only make false accusations toward me, diverted attention away from the original subject of this thread, but also called me names in an obvious attempt to bait me into a confrontation on this forum. In addition, it is more than obvious that Real Truther is the one creating sock puppets. The proof is that other "truthers" have signed up on this board who support Real Truther's logic and divisive positions.
In addition, the motto of "do no harm" has been repeatedly violated on this board. Countless newbies of the 9/11 truth movement, having innocently stumbled on this board unsuspecting, have been traumatized beyond repair and have turned their backs on the 9/11 truth movement because of this infighting and false accusations of "shill", "gatekeeper", "limited hangout operative", etc, leveled against honest truthers such as Jon (suck up to family members) Gold and the other favored bloggers who get to define what is "divisive" and what not (however, endless attacks against the over-rated Mega Disinfo Shills such as Nico, Fetzer, etc., as well as attacks against "divisive" skeptics of the Islamofascist myth are not damaging to Newbies and may proceed a pace).
I will not take the bait and recommend a re-assessment of Real Truther's posting privileges.
PS: the sock puppets of Real Truther
that I was referring to above are the ones who parrot Real Truther's personal theory that pokes holes in the Terror that was visited upon our great nation on the morning of 9/11 in the form of highly skilled, technological, and acrobatic fanatical suicidal Muslims that are the personification of evil.
PPS: JDRM has just informed us that "there really are those evil terrorists out there that threaten us!" He says that they are to the East, West, North, and South of Jihadiville. Please don't leave home without your wild goose when going to find them...
PPPS: Can I have a raise?
With the exponential increase in the numbers of Real Truther sock puppets on the blogsphere that shows no signs of abating any time soon, forcing us professional bloggers to work overtime on our whack-a-mole operations, I think it's only fair that I get a raise. Also, I would like to request 2 weeks paid vacation so that I can restore my sanity. thx
Keenan, stop harassing RT
You've already made him quit the movement twice. What are you trying to do exactly?Don't you realize all that RT has done for the movement? It was HE who first coined the term "truth" you know. Before that no one even knew we were a movement, let alone what we were advocating. Without RT, I dare say, there could be no life on earth. How dare you. How dare you. [inserts and removes cigar] mmmm tastes good...
Let's return some sanity to this discussion...
Real Truther has created the Mega Disinfoshill persona? That sounds like far-out conspiradroidery to us. One person = one persona. That's how it works in the real world.
i was waiting for these adorable little krill!!!
things are way weird here....RT, Gretavo, MegaDisinfoShill, and Keenan are all one?????? what a good time one can have with split personas...
can't we all just get a long
vacation in a warm sunny place? really, the way that the disinfo COINTELPRO agents of the NWO have descended on our happy home have me at wits end. How are we to tell the genuine from the disingenuinous? What will the newbies think? Is it me, or is this movement spiralling out of control? Is this what happens when the gatekeepers fail? Anyway, this whole blog is now starting to smell fishy what with all the new sea-shills popping up. Can we have a show of hands (or fins) of anyone who is NOT here as part of a disinfo campaign? It would very much help us all to know so that we may all focus our attention on confusing actual truthers and not each other. Many kind thanks.
these are mere shillings...
Shillings are like mini-shills, according to Nico Haupt. They are not quite as advanced as mega shills obviously. It will be interesting to see how these little krillings will weigh in on the Great Disinfofest of 2007 (while it lasts!)
Alright, that's it! I'm going to split this thread!
I've warned you repeatedly not to post off topic material on this thread, Gret, but you obviously don't get it, do you?
To repeat: This topic of this thread is one specific piece of dis-info promoted by many, who use it to support your personal outrageously divisive theory that the most important part of the 9/11 official conspiracy theory - namely the Terror that was visited upon our great nation on the morning of 9/11 in the form of highly skilled, technological, and acrobatic fanatical suicidal Muslims that are the personification of evil - is full of holes.
Everything else, including your no-planes theories and your divisive THEORY about the way in which Mega Disinfo Shills are used by subtle disinfo shills to either give the latter more credibility or to discredit skepticism in the 9/11 OCT is OFF TOPIC. OFF TOPIC! Got it?!
I'm going to split this thread, or slit this thread's throat now. And, if you post off-topic material containing any of the above-mentioned divisive material in the new thread, then I'LL SLIT THE NEW THREAD'S THROAT TOO...I MEAN SPLIT! SPLIT THE NEW THREAD!
Actually, Keenan, Real Truther, and Lazlo are the same entity,
manifest like Hindu avatars into three different forms in three different parts of the continent. Ever notice that these three all have the tendency to write long-winded pieces?