Racist, Right-wing Truthers Making Us All Look Bad, Yet Again
This article at a site calling itself "TruthAlliance.net" has been getting some response over at Truefaction, where several posters are just horrified at what the bad, bad direct actionistas in Denver are planning for the Democratic National Convention and the risks that truthers will be taking by associating with a group called Re-create 68. The "Truth Alliance" article reveals the kind of authority-fellation that is a real problem in some wings of the Peace Movement and the Truth Movement as well, along with some nice doses of racism and evidently some outright slander of a Denver anti-imperialist group called Revolutionary Anti-Imperialist Movement - Denver. The RAIMD folks have taken notice and have posted an anti 9/11 Truth article on their front page. In the comments below, after some racist asshole Truther comes by and threatens to beat them up, metaphorically speaking, we see that they are given a good opportunity to smear all of us with the racist nutjob/politically superficial brush:
# Herostratus Says:
April 18, 2008 at 5:15 pm
I have come to find out if what the Truth Alliance was saying was true. I am undecided as to whether or not you are working for the government knowingly, however I am sure as hell that you are not working in the best interests of the movement or of United States citizens.
You dont like it here? Go to Mexico, see how you like it there, but you will never have Mexico north of the Rio Grande. Not till I’m nice and dead!
You have found yourself a willing and active enemy. I will be spreading the word against your movement.
Strats
# death2amerika Says:
April 18, 2008 at 5:36 pm
It’s no surprise that the “9-11 Truth Movement†has a foundation in white populism. Thanks for making it obvious.
Fuck off nutjob racists,
Viva Mexico,
Death2Amerika
My comment is awaiting moderation -- it will be interesting to see if they post it:
casseia Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
April 18, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Yep, I visited because of the racist nutjob “Truth Alliance†article — which I read, aghast. You are correct that the 9/11 Truth movement has many profound problems. Where you are incorrect is in your assertion that all of us who organize our resistance to Empire around resistance to the 9/11 spectacle are racists. Many of us are anti-racists/anti-Zionists who see 9/11 as the big lie used to facilitate the demonization of the Arab/Muslim world and the wars of aggression against it. Seeing through 9/11 offers one means to see straight to the diseased heart of Empire.
I also linked to us and I wonder if anyone will visit and check out the Real Truth Movement.
pathetic all around
"death2amerika"? yeesh, i'm kind of glad that's the "anti-9/11 truth" person's name. So some site says something and some other site says something about that. I'm not terribly worried, all I can do is keep being the best representative of the truth movement that I can with as many people in person as possible--people who will likely in their lives never see or hear of truefaction, troofalliance, or the anti-imperialist-blackshirt-brigade people. basically the hard left represented by d2a has revealed itself to be a fraud, and as unpopular as they used to be they will become ever more so. it's our job to make sure people realize that 9/11 truth does NOT have roots in "white populism", that if there is such a perception we can thank fake truthers like Alex Jones and people like Luke Rudkowski who post pics of themselves posing with kooky white guys who don't want to pay taxes and have a gun shoved in the front of their pants awaiting their own private Waco.
Yes, "death2amerika" will not be getting any awards
for originality in choice of moniker and the whole site has to be read with an eye to potential, uhh, "disingenuousness" shall we say. The letter from Mr. Pro-white populism is rather over the top as well.
I'm not willing to write off the whole anti-imperialist crowd, though, especially since I consider myself one, although not the smartypants hipster variety. The dogmatic Chomskyites are beyond help, of course, but there are smart people with their hearts in the right place among them, too.
I'd keep in mind that some
I'd keep in mind that some of the stuff on the web may also be entirely contrived by intel agencies to provoke fighting amongst real people who hold similar views. Though this may not be the situation here.
i'm guessing it's a manufactured conflict too
"While you are here, take time to educate yourself on real anti-imperialist politics. We hope some of you get away from the white supremacist right wing politics inherent in the “truther†movement and get on the side of the oppressed of the world."
How condescending--exactly what I've come to expect from the fake laft. 9/11 denial, insistence that their ideology is the only right "anti-imperialist" ideology. I am offended (as a latino anti-imperialist) by these provocateur types, whose leaders I'm sure are white, inciting latinos to confront "the pigs" as if that is going to help them get people to understand the plight of the migrant worker.
I left the antiwar movement because it was dominated by just such "anti-imperialist" defenders of the Islamofascist myth--these are just the kind of people who accuse us of being racist for not applauding the brave blowback attacks by downtrodden arabs and muslims on 9/11.
Sorry Cass, I think both TA and RC68 are tools. TA promotes 9/11 Visibility for god's sake--that is about as LIHOPPY as the fake truth movement gets. They also have ads for buying gold on their site. This is like Alex Jones selling Armaggedon preparation kits on his.
I'd say it's a fixed fight designed to divide along specific lines--white christian folk on one side and Jewish, latino, black, etc. people on the other. It's sad for them because in the real world where real truthers roam, we know that people from ALL of these groups have become interested in the facts, and this fourth quarter attempt to divvy up the plebs is going to fall flat on its face, which they may not actually realize since the perps and their apologists tend to buy into their own BS.
No no no. This argument is a sideshow--very enlightening but not very relevant to what is bubbling up from the Realâ„¢ grassroots...
The only point of contention
The only point of contention I have is the Ed Brown issue. All of us living today have been force indoctrinated into the current mind set we have regarding government, taxes, etc. If people don't consent to something they shouldn't be forced via threat of death or armed robbery to comply as was Ed Brown's situation.
-Whitey
separate issue imo
hey whitey, I do have a problem with the way taxes are raised and spent. but i also have a problem with some of the things we are change in NY does. I mean, not too many people remeber when they walked around the city with the resistance manifesto web address on their banner, for example, and how lame their reason was (it was to win a contest with a cash prize) RM was (is?) the site of "Mark Dice" aka John something I forget and it was like AJ on speed, with armaggedon warnings, etc...
Mark Dice is baaaack...
And he's back with his friend Luke Rudkowski of We Are Change, and... Abby Martin?
Hey Whitey, I have been meaning to ask you
I have been meaning to ask you what you think of Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago. I remember reading the first volume in the 1980s. It was like taking a trip into Hell. The impression it made on me has never left me. I only read the first volume, and for me at the time it was all I could take. It’s a massively intense piece of writing. As an interesting side-note, when Solzhenitsyn was in the Gulag (1945-1953), he converted to Christianity, and the rest is history, as they say. Take care, my friend, and good luck with the rest of the book. I don’t know how long I would last, building railroads all day in Siberian snowstorms with no socks and bleeding feet.
I've enjoyed the book so
I've enjoyed the book so far. It follows on the tail of "Pawns in the Game" by Guy Carr so I'm seeing over lap with certain historical events and names. It's helping to clear up the hazey understanding I had about the 1900's-1950's. I'm only at about page 100 or so. I'll probably dive into some of the series that Gretavo recommended because the best way to learn is to keep reading as many sources on specific topics. I have an awesome example of social conformity to use in one of my psych classes for a demonstration (it's the story about the paper mill business man who was the first to stop clapping after 10 minutes of nonstop clapping and standing when Stalin's name was mentioned. Every one was too scared to be the first to stop so he did. He was arrested that night :P.)
It infuriates me to see similar MO's across the various ruling classes. That's the type of thing the masses need to be aware of. I've convinced one other person in my program to get his book and read it. She's a Christian. So it's probably going to hit home for her.
I would do my best not to wind up in a camp and I've said before, once I got myself out in the boonies and set up I would do every thing I could to help free people. Every person freed is another person who would be more willing to help rise up (as long as their spirit has not yet been destroyed...).
Best,
-Whitey
And they did post my comment
with this response:
death2amerika Says:
April 18, 2008 at 7:25 pm
I never said that every single person who questions the official story of 9-11 is a racist.
I said that the 9-11 truth movement has a base of white-populism. A cursory look a number of said websites (including the truth alliance one) will show you that.
I disagree with the methodology of “those who organize their resistance to empire around resistance to 9-11 spectacle.†That however is not a huge problem- we can agree to disagree there.
I vehemently abhor the white populism that is entrenched within the 9-11 truth movement. There is no room for unity with migrant bashers and amerika-firsters.
I hope that you continue reading RAIM materials as they are a welcome break from the pro-amerikanism of not just the “9-11 Truth Movement†but most amerikan social movements.
And points for consistency (?) to this person for his/her spelling of "amerika."
the question for mr amerika is...
does he believe Osama and the other Arab Muslims were responsible for 9/11, or does he acknowledge that it is by no means a proven fact? That's the test of these "we LOVE brown people" anti-imperialist (unless the empire is a dictatorship of the proletariat) types. Or ar they anarchists? In any case, 9/11 is a very important litmus test--as important as anti-racism.
speaking of LIHOP,
this "critical review" of shill game & week of LIHOP is getting hashed out @ truthaction.
http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3309
I, the REAL Annoymouse, piped up openly calling the whole shell game phenom an op with the intent of steering "the movement" to LIHOP Land. So I got the "LIHOP/MIHOP = BAD" spiel from Arabesque & Jon Gold, but so far no meaningful response to my query about how, if not LIHOP/MIHOP, should we make the distinction between the theory that Islamofascists principally orchestrated 911 (LIHOP), versus US officials principally orchestrating 911 (MIHOP). And I spell out why the distinction is so important.
So now I'm toying with the notion that the real reason for the movement's more academic types urging us to cease usage of LIHOP/MIHOP was, they knew as they tried to co-opt the movement and steer it towards LIHOP as "the Whole, Awful Truth"; activists having that language to efficiently summarize this limited hangout version of 911 truth would make the LIHOP sale more difficult. So better to make the LIHOP/MIHOP distinction taboo, then steer activists towards limited hangout LIHOP as Truth (when we won't quite have a word to efficiently describe the strangely unsatisfying nature of this MIHOP-free "911 Truth Lite" which the controlled bandwagon will ostensibly "settle on").
Does that make any sense? Will I be waiting in vain for JGold or Arabesque etc to propose new language where we can quickly make the distinction between "Moozlems primarily did 911" (IE war on terruh continues), and "US/Western PTB primarily did 911" (IE war on terruh a hoax). Would that kind of widely agreed upon linquistic clarity serve the interests of those who wish to steer us into the former camp as "The Truth"?
Welcome, Real Annoymouse
I'm happy to see you here. I read your remarks over at Truthaction and wished I could chime in to agree with you, but of course I was banned without explanation from there a few months ago. Your comments, and the automatic response they evoked from Arabesque, threw into stark relief the fact that Arab's role as self-appointed "academic type" is simply to regurgitate arguments again and again -- arguments that have received strenuous critiques to which he has never substantively responded. He just keeps throwing that "false division" crap out there, again and again, and the REAL difference in theory that you pointed out to him (which has been pointed out to him BEFORE) remains ignored. I think most of us here would agree with your analysis. It's not a false division -- it is THE CRUCIAL DIVISION for the reasons that you point out very clearly. There is no way those folks will help you come up with alternative terms when their goal is to obscure that fact by any means necessary.
I personally think they are quite serviceable terms, and I couldn't give a flying fuck who coined them.
tiny real medal for real annoymouse!
you got it pal. that is exactly what i think they were thinking. how on earth can we convince the masses of LIHOP when the truth hits the mainstream if we know that LIHOP has long been discredited? Answer? Don't call it LIHOP! Don't let ANYONE call it LIHOP!
That's why Jon Gold, Arabesque, Bill Douglas and Steve ALten are almost as bad as the perps themselves--they are desperately trying to keep blaming the evil MOOOOOOOZlimssss (extra hissssss) thereby getting the best of both worlds--both the evil MOOOOOOZlimssss AND the evil Amerikkkansssss taking the rap for what was absolutely not at all done with any help by the nice and lovable Neocons and Zionists! That's also why they claim that they think we shouldn't dwell on the demolitions--doesn't fit in with the Islamofascist myth, and puts too much scrutiny on Larry "Boom Boom" Silverstein. Denying it doesn't fly anymore, so they pretend it's just not good evidence. That way when they try to sell LIHOP to the awakened masses they can leave that part out and claim that only Jew-haters believe that in order to frame the innocent Jewish landlord... fiends!
I second the nomination for a Realâ„¢ Medal for the mouse!
Hey everyone, yes I'm still alive and I haven't abandoned ship of my favorite community of all you Realâ„¢ Truthers here on the best 9/11 blogging site on the web - I've just been busy as hell. But I occasionally come up for air and hop on here for a few minutes here and there for my fix of the latest and greatest happenings and analysis of all things 9/11-movement-related. Trying to start on eco-community is pretty much all-consuming and doesn't give one much time for blogging. Also, the lack of high-speed internet where I'm at is a bit frustrating. Anyway...thanks everyone for keeping it Realâ„¢ and continuing to make this site even better!
I have to agree vociferously with Annoymouse's comment on TA, as well as Gretavo's analysis. I've gone back and forth on the whole "MIHIP/LIHOP terms are useless and we need to come up with better terms" argument. However, I've basically come to the same conclusion as cassiea that even though LIHOP/MIHOP are not perfect (possibly they create a false dilemma between "Bush or bin Laden"), they are still well understood to distinguish between those who want to push the evil MOOOOOOOZlimssss did it, vs those who want the Full Realâ„¢ Truth. And, as cassiea so eloquently pointed out, who gives a flying fuck who first created the terms.
My first thought when I read your comment about MIHOP/LIHOP and the limited hangout Shill Game was, "Wow, I'm glad someone who can still post on TA is able to make this critical point that needs to be made (and re-made) there."
My second thought was, "Gee, I wonder if Annoymouse's posting privileges on TA are now going to be subject to an intensified scrutiny after bringing up certain points that certain fake truthers who dominate the discussion over there don't want to be brought up?"
It's interesting (or telling) that only those who are dogmatic LIHOPers claim that the terms are meaningless and cry so bitterly about the use of these terms. Arabesque - the master of re-definitions in the movement - points out yet again for the umteenth time that, "duh, you can use them this way and that way and therefore they've lost their meaning." Well yes, Arabesque, if we use them YOUR way...gee, whadaya know! They have lost their meaning, haven't they? Then again, we might also ask: Whose fault is it that they have lost their meaning, Arabesque? Could it be...could it be the fault of the very people who WANT SO MUCH for them to lose their meaning and to eliminate THIS CRITICAL DISTINCTION THAT 90% OF THE TRUTH MOVEMENT HAS IN MIND WHEN USING THESE TERMS? Me thinks most definitely.
Oh, and if a term is re-defined in the woods and no one is there to agree with the re-definitions, has the term really been re-defined?
Hey Keenan,
Good to see you around! We all wondered where you were.
thanks for the strokes, I
thanks for the strokes, I knew I could count on yous animals to rub my belly and give Real Annoymouse a Real cheeseball treat.
What's positive is Cosmos spoke up saying new language for the moozlems-did-911 vs US/Western-PTB-did-911 distinction would be good, and noted shill game's pimping of the "moozlem menace". I just tuned in his TRR show (archived at http://mp3.wtprn.com/TRR08.html ) hoping he'd raise the matter, but I've missed the first 90 minutes. Doh! at 46 mins into the 2nd hour, there a Week Of LIHOP ad?!?! It doesn't mention shill game, but points to the site, and babbles about how WOT was initiated by all the top leaders, blah!
So it may be up to us to come up with the new language. However launching a new meme is hard, esp when the pwned "leaders" would all boycott it and prolly write scholarly papers denouncing the distinction as "divisive" or some such. So before knocking ourselves out birthing and propagating some new terms with dubious prospects for success, we should ask if it's necessary? LIHOP/MIHOP work fine for me. Sure they have some logical conflicts- but those mostly stem from LIHOP because LIHOP is BS, while MIHOP is unburdened by such conflicts because it's what happened. So, should we simply ignore the attempt to taboo-ize LIHOP/MIHOP and the (LIHOP) agenda behind that attempt?
I see no reason for y'all not posting at truthaction if not 911B etc... despite prior bannings or prior "I quit!" declarations. The stakes are too high, and your REAL TRUTH voices are needed. So suck it up, rejoin (use a proxy if your IP's been banned) and keep the heat on the LIHOP shills.
Keep using the terms. I
Keep using the terms. I hated them when I first heard them because in my mind letting something happen is just as bad as making it happen. I think at this point they are good terms if the cointel is railing against it. It does make the muslims vs. government distinction more clear.
I agree about still posting on those other sites if people get the time. I just find it a bid a time consuming issue to point out the foolishness of some posts and in other cases some of the constant posting seems like a wasteful distraction. 911B used to have more substance in posts but any more there's a big wad of BS that one has to sift through to get to any thing meaty (nice little controlling measures to keep those who can't parse info salience busy reading BS.) I will try to make an attempt to post there more. I do distinctly remember a time when certain questionable activists were able to be logically shot down on a frequent basis. Now it seems like they gang up on any one pointing logical inconsistencies.
-Whitey
Do you have an actual critique of the Truth Alliance article?
The closest you got was "authority-fellation" - is that your catchall phrase for people who don't think throwing urine at cops is a good idea?
Actual Critique, Item One
According to RAIMD, they never said anything about throwing urine. So deceitful misreporting of the aims of other groups would be item one.
Secondly, whether or not property damage is violence is a legitimate debate and one that they dismiss out of hand.
Thirdly, they implicitly blame demonstrators for police violence, both past and potential. That's bullshit.
So, do you support the Truth Alliance article and its racist remarks? What policy do you advocate for out border with Mexico? Do you think property damage constitutes violence?
my answers...
So, do you support the Truth Alliance article and its racist remarks? No.
What policy do you advocate for out border with Mexico? Prosecute people who hire illegals, and make them pay for the illegals' ticket home. Perhaps create än enterprise zone between the two countries that would employ people from both sides. i.e. work to solve the real problems with real solutions, not let the problem perpetuate for political gain. No border fence.
Do you think property damage constitutes violence? Depends. Is the property being used to hurt people? Does the property belong to the common good? Was the property illegaly acquired? Is the motive of destruction to intimidate an innocent person? Either way, it's not good for a cause's PR or image, and it's an excuse for the state to marginalize and/or crack down on legitimate dissent. When it is advocated by people who deny the reality of 9/11, I worry, yes. And if it were advocated by people who support 9/11 truth I would also worry.
there's a dirty little (big) secret
> Prosecute people who hire illegals, and make them pay for the illegals' ticket home.
If this was actually done, nobody would pick the strawberries or many other wonderful products of California that are picked by largely illegal migrant labor. Not without a big jump in prices anyway. And that's just the tip of the iceberg (lettuce). I believe the economy (especially outside the northeast) in many ways depends on an illegal work force. And vice versa.
then we pay more for hand picked food
what's the problem? that then people who pick fruit might actually earn a decent wage? that then more locals would pick fruit? why should we not try to deal with the problem that mexico cant provide jobs for its citizens? you know why that is right? because they are so f**ing corrupt. And the people have a choice of either fighting the corruption, which many do with no help from American activists, or sucking up the corruption and going north for work where American activists will actually help them. The migrant workers are pawns and we do them no favors by allowing them to be enslaved, or ourselves by treating the Mexican elite like anything but swindlers (like so many of our own elite). I grew up in various latin american countries. If you think the situation in the US is bad in terms of corruption, you don't want to imagine it getting as bad as it is there, yet that is exactly what's been happening as I've observed during my life. it was unthinkable then, but that's where we're headed. Got stuff? Make sure you also got a priavte security guard with a gun, and don't expect you won't someday get ripped off--by the police. Funny how the anti-imperialists focus so much of their energies on the big bad US consumer instead of on so many clearly complicit global elite organizations...
illegals do a lot more than pick food
a LOT more. And I agree with you overall; the reason they're working here is the vast difference in standard of living / wages paid which is due to long term corruption in their countries.
> "why should we not try to deal with the problem that mexico cant provide jobs for its citizens?"
huh? so we should deal with the problem by calling the hard workers "illegal" and sending them back to a corrupt land that can't employ them? Hey, let's deport the illegal employers to mexico and keep the hard workers here! How's that for a simple solution?
the funny thing is that a lot of white people who argue mexicans shouldn't be here "taking jobs away from amerikans" are the same folks who expect the services and products cheap and don't really understand the big economic picture: You can't have this (relative) prosperity without some cheap (slave?) labor supporting it somewhere down the line, behind the scenes, or at the least deep in your past. Or all of the above!
american teenagers (nor their self-entitled parents) are not about to pick fruit and work out in the hot sun on all the manual labor west of the miss that's currently done by illegals. Nor for that matter manufacture all the crap we import from China. Ever try to shop for something specifically NOT made in China? It's getting more difficult.
my primary point is that there's no simple solution.
Secondarily, 99% of modern americans are what might be considered illegal immigrants in the eyes of the original inhabitants. just because your ancestors took advantage of this situation where America was raped and pillaged, does that mean you're now entitled to determine who can immigrate to america and who can't? if the red man makes enough in casinos to stand up and declare all whiteys (no offense, whitey) "illegal immigrants", then where will amerika be? On a boat back to Europe, ticket paid by whomever employed him?! :)
anyway sorry to get hung up on this small point but it bugs me when i hear my associates talk about "all these illegals taking our benefits etc etc" My opinion is that putting up a wall and declaring human beings "illegal" is just a bad idea.
I agree with all y'all
Amen to Casseia (and btw your postings of the last few weeks have been really excellent), and to Gretavo, Keenan, Tahooey, and the RealTM Annoymouse, on all your comments on everything here.
This is the best 9/11 Truth, etc. Blog out there. This is a great and unique team. To be honest, every so often, time permitting, I will visit other 9/11 blogospheres on the internet tubes, but unfortunately, often with the same attitude that I adopt when watching CNN, one of sheer curiosity as to how the message is being spun, corralled, stalled, adapted, partially revealed, and or completely misdirected. And occasionally, until they are banned and crushed, at some of these now fairly “controlled†venues, voices of intelligence and insight will speak up against such HIGHLY TRANSPARENT Cointel-Pro operations such as “the Steve Alten-Shill Game Affair,†as the later 9/11 truth movement will sadly remember it, and how a bunch of good people got completely played and duped by cover-up agents and useful idiots working for the agents of the perpetrators and architects of the Genocidal-WW III-9/11-War on Terror-Hoax. As far as I’ve read of Alten’s work, it seems to be a good indicator of why he pursued a Doctorate in Gym Class. For a gym teacher, though, he is a fairly good writer. The Muslims in his book, as would be expected, are like the cut-out stereotypes out of that video clip available on YouTube about the long Hollywood tradition of “crazed Muslims with machine guns†movies. Everyone now knows that they all keep fleets of flying carpets in their underground, air-conditioned Jihad enclaves, and have supernatural powers to hit two Great Satan skyscrapers with only two planes—miraculously flown by Cessna school dropouts who had been drinking all night—but somehow were able to bring down three Great Satan skyscrapers and cause unwitting BBC reporters to become clairvoyant on camera. Hey, that sounds like a really good “Crazy Muslim†script for a Hollywood movie.
The truly bizzaro idea now being thrown around is that this sect called the Zihoppers (who are followers of Frank Zappa? Zappa made it happen? Fill me in.) are apparently Arab-haters who believe that Arab Muslims could not possibly have pulled off 9/11 because they are genetically or racially not smart enough to have been able to figure out how to do so. I don’t think, however, that that is the reason at all. I think that these people, whoever they are, simply don’t think that the officially accused culprits of 9/11 had the necessary resources and security clearances to make happen what happened, nor did they in fact possess the necessary amount of conscienceless, moral depravity to be able do it either.
for the record...
I have the highest respect for the talents, abilities, and intelligence of the descendants of the inventors of Al Gebra. if they wanted to I'm sure they could devise the most cleverest, dastardliest deeds to vex us on a daily basis.
I just have a real problem with people taking credit for things they did not do, thereby robbing the actual deserving groups or individuals of the recognition they deserve. Why is it that when Mossad, which NEVER tries to gloat or take credit for any of its achievements, pulls of a real humdinger people have to bend over backwards to give someone else all the glory?
Mossad, like all Zionists, are far too humble and down to earth to make a fuss about this, and that unfortunately is an open invitation for jew-haters and anti-semites of all stripes to profit unjustly from their efforts. Being more talented than anyone else, Mossad is bound to ruffle feathers and incur jealousy, but that is NOT a valid argument for establishing quotas that limit the number of successful operations that they can take credit for. I'm all for affirmative action in the strictest sense--we should absolutely take meaningful steps toward identifying and publicizing any and all successful operations carried out by al Qaeda--but throwing them bones here and there is NOT going to help them become better terrorists--it will instead make them think that there is no sense in putting in a real effort.
i certainly didn't mean to simplify anything...
A few points... the big economic picture does NOT depend on slave labor. the CURRENT picture might, but I would argue that my standard of living is about what one might expect if all citizens were putting in an equal effort. of course that is not the case. Most effor tis purely wasted in this country--when you look at the amount of bullshit work that people (especially higher paid people) do it's astounding. Pushing papers around, etc. is not a productive use of time. If everything were divided up in a rational way then we could all probably work 10 hours a week and everything that needed to be done would get done. Right now the people at the top of the wealth/effort ratio pyramid are what make it necessary to fill certain jobs with slave wage workers, i.e. those at the bottom of the wealth/effort pyramid. Someone always has to pay the piper and in our society it's the poor, including the most vulnerable, the "illegals".
The elites laugh all the way to the bank when people like us argue over the peanuts they throw our way. Neither the fence building minutemen types nor the anti-imperialist types have good ideas--they have ideas that the elites give them, that are designed to divide people.
standards of living
> I would argue that my standard of living is about what one might expect if all citizens were putting in an equal effort.
So would most, I'd assume.
Do you drive a car? does that not figure into your standard of living? did you ever consider what the world would be like if every individual over the age of 18 drove a car? In fact I believe that's not even possible due to physical limitations, although I could be mistaken.
But the way America is constructed, it's almost required that the majority will need to drive cars. This is unfortunate but not an accident. Sure everyone could move to Boston and take the T (but they stop running at F'ing midnight or something WAY too early!) And I think that too might have an impact on your standard of living :)
Then the issue of everyone in the world eating the typical american diet of way too much protein. Again I could be mistaken but I'm pretty sure that the world just can't produce that much beef.
http://recycleman.groupee.com/displaystory/content/54469875415730842
I'm just pointing out that your standard of living may include things you never even realized are just not available or even feasible for most of the world's population.Â
I do agree that CEOs (and a lot of other higher up paper pushers) get way too much for way too little, and it's a big problem.
-T
standards...
Well, I got my first and only car, an 87 tercel, about a year and a half ago. I could easily give it up, as should most people, in favor of clean mass transit, and maybe a zipcar type thing for when you absolutely must. point is, we would share. i don't eat that much meat--typical meal is spaghetti with tomoato sauce. i mean obviously some things would be different, but my point is that it's the obscenely rich who are hogging the share deserved by the poor hard workers... :)
the truth mobile
At this point you're
At this point you're correct. See the fiat currency problems have been hidden from the public. It's like one big, bad dyke leaking like a sieve. People get pissed at the migrants (who flee because the fiat currency in their own country has been many times worse than our own and for longer). We need our own locals working the land PERIOD. Every large community needs to have its own people performing basic tasks like this and they need to be properly compensated. I bought some OJ yesterday at the store(I live in Kalifornia). I bought the cheapest, non concentrate brand. It happens to have juice from oranges grown in the US and in Brazil. WTF?!?! WTF WTF WTF?! I'm in Kalifornia and they're importing oranges??? Madness! The way the globalists are running things they can really put the screws on almost any given population because they don't have a broad spectrum of basic goods. I fully support farmers and those who tend the land ( I myself have started a decent size garden this year and continue to dream about the day I'll own my own land in the country side).
So the Amerikkka haters say it's slander
and you take their word for it... and by accusing truth alliance of "deceit" you are basically practicing exactly what you accuse them of.
"do you support the Truth Alliance article and its racist remarks"
I thought the article was interesting and didn't find any racist remarks in it. Could you point them out?
I have an idea...
since I know what racist comments are, why don't I let you improve your abilities to find them? If you can find one (and there is more than one) I'll point out the others I see to you.
As for deceitful remark, why don't you contact the author of the article and get him to cite a source for his accusation? Then we'll have a better basis to determine whether it was deceitful.
You accused someone of being racist
You should be willing to back up your accusation.
...
1. You provide a source for statement about pee-hurling (which is a REAL accusation -- with potential real consequences) and
2. You make an effort to identify instances of racism in the text
And then I will help you. I notice you skim right over my request that you find a source for the dangerous allegation about what this group might do.
PS As far as I am concerned, if you are white, you are either a racist or an anti-racist -- you don't get to be a non-racist, sorry, or to pretend racism just doesn't exist. So that would be an alternative -- show me the places in the text that are anti-racist.
We "will not tolerate baseless charges of bigotry"
Seems like you're at odds with the mission statement here.
They're not baseless.
I've explained what you need to do if you want me to expend energy trying to educate you.
about that racism...
did you see it in that one article in particular or elsewhere on their site? if so, I have to say that the article you mentioned didn't seem particularly racist to me! correct me if i'm wrong but the thrust was about how hard left groups can sometimes adopt needlessly confrontational tactics (calling cops pigs is stupid in my opinion) and how this particular group may well be of that ilk. the anti-imperialist left is the Chomsky left and it is woefully behind everyone else on the issue of 9/11 truth, and that concerns me a great deal.
Well, it's true that I am reading the article
in the context of the other things I have seen on the site, such as an article referring to immigrants as a "human Katrina."
There is, in fact, a part of the anti-imperialist left that is not a lock-step Chomsky left. OTOH, I too get a little whiff of World Can't Wait from the Recreate 68 site, and my own experiences with WCW here were such that I would be very unlikely to work with them again. However, here in Portland, the WCW folks were authority-fellators par excellence and basically at war with our own local black-clad anti-piggistas, so I'm guessing there is a different cast of characters involved in Denver.
Cite your sources! It's nice
Cite your sources! It's nice that you cut and pasted the "mission statement" and included your view of things BUUUT what text or comments make you conclude that there is baseless bigotry?
huh?
"PS As far as I am concerned, if you are white, you are either a racist or an anti-racist "
Why the "if you are white?"
Because...
being racist does not just mean having prejudices based on race (which is likely to be true for all people to greater and lesser extents) but enjoying the privilege that accrues from institutionalized inequality based on race. I would not presume to call a person who is not white racist for this reason. You wanna call yourself a racist, be my guest.
Oh lord...
An update, via Danse's post at TA:
5. Benjamin Says:
April 18, 2008 at 8:47 pm
I’ll call you racist. The entire premise of your idiot movement is that a bunch of brown-skinned Arabs are incapable of doing what they fucking did.
See, gretavo? We're the Arab-haters! How could I have been so blind? To deny that they have physics-defying superpowers and that it is an incontrovertible fact that they hijacked planes, flew them, and crashed them, because our government offered flimsy allegations that they did, even though their brown-skinned leader denied it before confessing it! I am so ashamed.
I'm not impressed with recreate68
Everything about it looks exactly like the World Can't Wait, Revolutionary COmmunist Party, ZNet, Chomsky crap that makes up the core of the fake left.
They say:
"What stands between the people and power are the party machines. The parties were devised as a means to represent the people. Today they represent nobody, not even party members, but only party bureaucracy. "
The parties were NOT devised to represent the people, what kind of BS is that? And today far from representing nobody they represent some very specific interests that I need not go into.
They also plan to demonstrate at the mint, in their shake your money maker stunt. The mint makes coins and prints bills, they do NOT have anything to do with anything else. Go protest Citibank, or the Fed, or something else that is actually relevant and leave the poor craftsmen alone!
On a flyer of theirs they claim to support "Free Thought". Why do I suspect that if I were to tell them that I was thinking about the work David Cole did on the subject of the holocaust they would be none to happy about my freedom to think and say so? Why do I get the feeling that they would immediately scream that I am obviously a Nazi racist fascist and that they will pound me if they ever see me? I get that feeling because that is exactly what the fake left-right game is all about and it is one thing I don't miss about the local antiwar scene. Vociferously taking sides in a bogus paradigm is THE best path to irrelevance.
That they are against 9/11 truth is just the last straw in my book. Whoever the power behind them is I would not trust or follow them any farther than I could hurl a 300 ton piece of steel structure...
"Whoever the power behind
"Whoever the power behind them is I would not trust or follow them any farther than I could hurl a 300 ton piece of steel structure..."
Which is exactly why it behooves all of us to make note of who leaders and funders are. I have no doubt that intel agencies fund a lot of these start ups. It's an excellent way to control and monitor the masses.
-Whitey