Anthropogenic Global Warming Conspiracy

juandelacruz's picture

The global warming (aka climate change) debate has been raging the past few days due to hackers publishing private emails at a noted climate change research center.

The emails showed collusion between scientists to trick their data presentation, undermine opposing scientists, and hiding their doubts about their own research from everyone else.

Climate Emails Stoke Debate
Scientists' Leaked Correspondence Illustrates Bitter Feud over Global Warming

By KEITH JOHNSON

The scientific community is buzzing over the thousands of emails and documents, posted on the Internet late last week after being hacked from the computer of a prominent climate-change research center, which some say raise ethical questions about a group of scientists who contend that humans are responsible for global warming.

The email correspondence between dozens of key climate-change researchers around the world, including many in the U.S., paints a picture of an angry backlash by those who believe human activities are causing global warming against those who argue that the link between humans and climate change remains uncertain.
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Some emails also refer to efforts by scientists who believe man is causing global warming to exclude contrary views from important scientific publications.

"This is horrible," said Pat Michaels, a climate scientist at the Cato Institute in Washington who is mentioned negatively in the emails. "This is what everyone feared. Over the years, it has become increasingly difficult for anyone who does not view global warming as an end-of-the-world issue to publish papers. This isn't questionable practice, this is unethical."

John Christy, a scientist at the University of Alabama at Huntsville who was attacked in the emails, said, "It's disconcerting to realize that legislative actions this nation is preparing to take, and which will cost trillions of dollars, are based upon a view of climate that has not been completely scientifically tested -- but rather orchestrated."

In all, more than 1,000 emails and more than 2,000 other documents were stolen Thursday from the Climate Research Unit at East Anglia University in the U.K. The identity of the hackers isn't certain, but the files were posted on a Russian file-sharing server late Thursday, and university officials confirmed over the weekend that their computer had been attacked and said the documents appear to be genuine.

"The selective publication of some stolen emails and other papers taken out of context is mischievous and cannot be considered a genuine attempt to engage with this issue in a responsible way," the university said.

Representatives of the American Association for the Advancement of Science, one of the biggest professional scientific organizations, expressed concern that the hacked emails would weaken global resolve to curb greenhouse-gas emissions. The association believes "that climate change is real, it is related to human activities, and the need to counteract its impacts is now urgent," Ginger Pinholster, an association spokeswoman, wrote in an email Sunday.

In the emails, which date to 1996, researchers in the U.S. and the U.K. repeatedly take issue with climate research at odds with their own findings. In some cases, they discuss ways to rebut what they call "disinformation" using new articles in scientific journals or popular Web sites. In others, they refer to scientific opponents of the man-made global-warming theory as "utter prats."

Among the more controversial issues raised by the emails are discussions of apparent efforts by climate researchers to make sure that reports from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, a United Nations group that monitors climate science, include their own views and exclude others. In addition, emails show that climate scientists declined to make their data available to scientists whose views they disagreed with.

In one email, Benjamin Santer from the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory in Livermore, Calif., wrote to the director of the climate-study center that he was "very tempted" to beat up Mr. Michaels. Mr. Santer couldn't be reached for comment Sunday.

In another, Phil Jones, the director of the East Anglia climate center, suggested to American climate scientist Michael Mann of Penn State University that skeptics' research was unwelcome: We "will keep them out somehow -- even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!" Neither man could be reached for comment Sunday.

A spokeswoman for the journal Science said papers are evaluated based solely on scientific merit and are reviewed by independent experts.

The emails were published less than a month before the opening of a major climate-change summit in Copenhagen. The summit was supposed to draft a successor to the Kyoto Protocol, the 1997 treaty that established limits on the gases believed to cause global warming.

Expectations for the summit have been scaled back, as the global recession, which has dampened enthusiasm for potentially costly environmental measures, and a recent cooling trend in global temperatures have both undermined support for an ambitious pact. The U.S. Senate has also delayed action on a big energy and climate bill until next year.
—Jeffrey Ball contributed to this article.

Write to Keith Johnson at keith.johnson@wsj.com

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125883405294859215.html?mod=googlenews_w...

* Download the emails and documents (The file is over 60 MB)
http://www.filedropper.com/foi2009

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juandelacruz's picture

Climategate

Climategate: how the MSM reported the greatest scandal in modern science

By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: November 21st, 2009

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100017451/climategate-...

Here’s what the Times has had to say on the subject:

E-mails allegedly written by some of the world’s leading climate scientists have been stolen by hackers and published on websites run by climate change sceptics.

The sceptics claim that the e-mails are evidence that scientists manipulated data in order to strengthen their argument that human activities were causing global warming.

(Yep – definitely an improvement on their earlier, non-existent coverage; but not exactly pointing up the scandalousness of this scandal).

And the Independent:

(Yep. Nada).

And here’s how The New York Times (aka Pravda) reported it:

Hundreds of private e-mail messages and documents hacked from a computer server at a British university are causing a stir among global warming skeptics, who say they show that climate scientists conspired to overstate the case for a human influence on climate change.

(Yep. That’s right. It has only apparently caused a stir among ’skeptics’. Everyone else can rest easy. Nothing to see here.)

And here’s how the Guardian has reported it:

Hundreds of private emails and documents allegedly exchanged between some of the world’s leading climate scientists during the past 13 years have been stolen by hackers and leaked online, it emerged today.

The computer files were apparently accessed earlier this week from servers at the University of East Anglia’s Climate Research Unit, a world-renowned centre focused on the study of natural and anthropogenic climate change.

(Oh. I get it. It’s just a routine data-theft story, not a scandal. And a chance to remind us of the CRU’s integrity and respectability. And – see below – to get in a snarky, ‘let’s have a dig at the deniers’ quote from Greenpeace).

A spokesman for Greenpeace said: “If you looked through any organisation’s emails from the last 10 years you’d find something that would raise a few eyebrows. Contrary to what the sceptics claim, the Royal Society, the US National Academy of Sciences, Nasa and the world’s leading atmospheric scientists are not the agents of a clandestine global movement against the truth. This stuff might drive some web traffic, but so does David Icke.”

Here’s the Washington Post:

Hackers broke into the electronic files of one of the world’s foremost climate research centers this week and posted an array of e-mails in which prominent scientists engaged in a blunt discussion of global warming research and disparaged climate-change skeptics.

The skeptics have seized upon e-mails stolen from the Climatic Research Unit of the University of East Anglia in Britain as evidence that scientific data have been rigged to make it appear as if humans are causing global warming. The researchers, however, say the e-mails have been taken out of context and merely reflect an honest exchange of ideas.

(Ah, so what the story is really about is ’skeptics’ causing trouble. Note how as high as the second par the researchers are allowed by the reporter to get in their insta-rebuttal, lest we get the impression that the scandal in any way reflects badly on them).

Here is the BBC:

E-mails reportedly from the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit (CRU), including personal exchanges, appeared on the internet on Thursday.

A university spokesman confirmed the email system had been hacked and that information was taken and published without permission.

An investigation was underway and the police had been informed, he added.

(Ah yes, another routine data-theft story so dully reported – “the police had been informed, he added” – that you can’t even be bothered to reach the end to find out what information was stolen).

Meanwhile, the Climategate scandal (and I do apologise for calling it that, but that’s how the internet works: you need obvious, instantly memorable, event-specific search terms) continues to set the Blogosphere ablaze.

For links to all the latest updates on this, I recommend Marc Morano’s invaluable Climate Depot site.

And if you want to read those potentially incriminating emails in full, go to An Elegant Chaos org where they have all been posted in searchable form.

Like the Telegraph’s MPs’ expenses scandal, this is the gift that goes on giving. It won’t, unfortunately, derail Copenhagen (too many vested interests involved) or cause any of our many political parties to start talking sense on “Climate change”. But what it does demonstrate is the growing level of public scepticism towards Al Gore’s Anthropogenic Global Warming theory. That’s why, for example, this story is the single most read item on today’s Telegraph website.

What it also demonstrates – as my dear chum Dan Hannan so frequently and rightly argues – is the growing power of the Blogosphere and the decreasing relevance of the Mainstream Media (MSM).

This is not altogether the MSM’s fault. Partly it is just the way of things that more and more readers prefer their news and opinion served up in snappier, less reverent, more digestible and instant for.

But in the case of “Climate Change”, the MSM has been caught with its trousers down. The reason it has been so ill-equipped to report on this scandal is because almost all of its Environmental Correspondents and Environmental Editors are parti pris members of the Climate-Fear Promotion lobby. Most of their contacts (and information sources) work for biased lobby groups like Greenpeace and the WWF, or conspicuously pro-AGW government departments and Quangos such as the Carbon Trust. How can they bring themselves to report on skullduggery at Hadley Centre when the scientists involved are the very ones whose work they have done most to champion and whose pro-AGW views they share?

As Upton Sinclair once said:

“It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.”

So don’t expect this scandal to be written up in the MSM any time soon. But why would you want to anyway? It’s all here, where the free spirits and independent thinkers are, on the Blogosphere.

UPDATE: I particularly recommend Bishop Hill’s superb summary of some of the key points of the CRU correspondence.
(http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2009/11/20/climate-cuttings-33.ht...)

Also, Andrew Bolt’s summary of the correspondence likely to be most damaging to the reputation – and career, we can but pray – of Professor Phil Jones, the head of the CRU.
(http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/commen...)

And do check out Watts Up With That, whose traffic went through the roof yesterday, enabling to demonstrate scientifically that Hockey Stick is after all a genuine phenomenon – and not merely a figment of Michael Mann’s overactive imagination.
(http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/20/release-of-cru-files-forge-a-new-h...)

Annoymouse's picture

Hide The Decline



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEiLgbBGKVk

We Are Change Colorado @ Al Gore Book Signing - Activist Rips Up Al's Book in Front of His Face


juandelacruz's picture

Climategate - New Zealand edition

My first big doubts about global warming came when I found out about the temperature data manipulation at NASA (climategate - USA edition). The recent hacking scandal at UEA (climategate - UK edition) put me firmly on the skeptic camp. Now confirmation comes from the other side of the world that indeed the global warming campaign is a bogus scheme for some hidden agenda.

 


Climategate Scandal Spreads to New Zealand as MSM Continues Ostrich Act

By P.J. Gladnick
November 26, 2009 - 11:32 ET

 

Oops! If the mainstream media was hoping that the Climategate
scandal would be limited to the University of East Anglia's Climate
Reasearch Unit (CRU) in Norwich, England, they are out of luck. This
scandal has now reared its ugly head on the other side of the globe at
New Zealand's National Institute of Water and Atmospheric research
(NIWA)  which is that nation's chief climate advisory unit.

Watts Up With That? reposting from New Zealand's TBR.cc Investigate magazine's breaking news forum explains this latest development in the widening Climategate scandal: 

The scandal breaks as fears grow worldwide that
corruption of climate science is not confined to just Britain’s CRU
climate research centre.

In New Zealand’s case, the figures published on NIWA’s website
suggest a strong warming trend in New Zealand over the past century.

A warming trend! This must be serious enough to shout "ManBearPig!"  And here is a NIWA graph of the supposed warming trend:

 

Here is the caption under that NIWA graph:

Figure 7: Mean annual temperature over New Zealand,
from 1853 to 2008 inclusive, based on between 2 (from 1853) and 7 (from
1908) long-term station records. The blue and red bars show annual
differences from the 1971 – 2000 average, the solid black line is a
smoothed time series, and the dotted [straight] line is the linear
trend over 1909 to 2008 (0.92°C/100 years).

Mama, save me! I'm scared! But wait. Watts Up With That? provides us with a very important caveat in the form of another graph:

But analysis of the raw climate data from the same temperature stations has just turned up a very different result:

Gone is the relentless rising temperature trend, and
instead there appears to have been a much smaller growth in warming,
consistent with the warming up of the planet after the end of the
Little Ice Age in 1850.

The revelations are published today in a news alert from The Climate Science Coalition of NZ:

Straight away you can see there’s no slope—either up or down. The
temperatures are remarkably constant way back to the 1850s. Of course,
the temperature still varies from year to year, but the trend stays
level—statistically insignificant at 0.06°C per century since 1850.

Putting these two graphs side by side, you can see huge differences. What is going on?

Yeah? What is going on? Why did NIWA frighten your humble correspondent?

Why does NIWA’s graph show strong warming, but graphing
their own raw data looks completely different? Their graph shows
warming, but the actual temperature readings show none whatsoever!

Have the readings in the official NIWA graph been adjusted?

It is relatively easy to find out. We compared raw data for each
station (from NIWA’s web site) with the adjusted official data, which
we obtained from one of Dr Salinger’s colleagues.

Requests for this information from Dr Salinger himself over the
years, by different scientists, have long gone unanswered, but now we
might discover the truth.

What did we find? First, the station histories are unremarkable.
There are no reasons for any large corrections. But we were astonished
to find that strong adjustments have indeed been made.

About half the adjustments actually created a warming trend where
none existed; the other half greatly exaggerated existing warming. All
the adjustments increased or even created a warming trend, with only
one (Dunedin) going the other way and slightly reducing the original
trend.

The shocking truth is that the oldest readings have been cranked way
down and later readings artificially lifted to give a false impression
of warming, as documented below. There is nothing in the station
histories to warrant these adjustments and to date Dr Salinger and NIWA
have not revealed why they did this.

One station, Hokitika, had its early temperatures reduced by a huge
1.3°C, creating strong warming from a mild cooling, yet there’s no
apparent reason for it.

We have discovered that the warming in New Zealand over the past
156 years was indeed man-made, but it had nothing to do with emissions
of CO2—it was created by man-made adjustments of the temperature. It’s
a disgrace.

NIWA claim their official graph reveals a rising trend of 0.92ºC per
century, which means (they claim) we warmed more than the rest of the
globe, for according to the IPCC, global warming over the 20th century
was only about 0.6°C.

Pardon the interruption here but does anybody else notice how it is
the much maligned blogosphere that is doing the detailed footwork that
the mainstream media should, but won't, do? Okay, I return you now to
the unfolding Climategate scandal:

NIWA’s David Wratt has told Investigate magazine this
afternoon his organization denies faking temperature data and he claims
NIWA has a good explanation for adjusting the temperature data upward.
Wratt says NIWA is drafting a media response for release later this
afternoon which will explain why they altered the raw data.

“Do you agree it might look bad in the wake of the CRU scandal?”

“No, no,” replied Wratt before hitting out at the Climate Science
Coalition and accusing them of “misleading” people about the
temperature adjustments.

Manipulation of raw data is at the heart of recent claims of corrupt
scientific practice in climate science, with CRU’s Phil Jones recently
claiming old temperature records collected by his organization were
“destroyed” or “lost”, meaning researchers can now only access manipulated data.

So far this New Zealand scandal remains unreported in the American MSM but, to its credit, there is a report
on this latest Climategate outbreak across the pond by James Delingpole
the UK Telegraph. Meanwhile, if the U.S. media ever pull their ostrich
heads out of the sand, they will have a huge amount of catching up to
do in this scandal.

—P.J. Gladnick is a freelance writer and creator of the DUmmie FUnnies blog.

Annoymouse's picture

"My first big doubts about

"My first big doubts about global warming came when I found out about the temperature data manipulation at NASA (climategate - USA edition). The recent hacking scandal at UEA (climategate - UK edition) put me firmly on the skeptic camp. Now confirmation comes from the other side of the world that indeed the global warming campaign is a bogus scheme for some hidden agenda."

That's you. How many here still desperately cling to the fraud of global warming and peak oil. Being green is not so easy anymore.

Tahooey's picture

And this explains the melting arctic

And this explains the melting arctic ... how?

Regardless of manipulation and hacking it's clear to people paying attention over the course of their lives that the weather is changing, whatever the reason, it's hard not to suspect human activitiy / CO2 output.

Annoymouse's picture

About the weird weather, my grammy said...

Dey shudda nevah taykin dem rocks offa duh moon.

gretavo's picture

who knows...

I think 9/11 is a big enough topic to deal with without adding in the climate debate... :(

casseia's picture

Yes and...

... is anyone debating whether or not CO2 levels in the atmosphere have increased dramatically since the Industrial Revolution? Why in the world would someone NOT expect that a change in one place in a complex system would have results in other parts of that system?

juandelacruz's picture

Complex Arctic situation

This article shows that the situation is very complex. The arctic may be cooling, even though at one point there was less ice due to winds blowing them to warmer regions. It may not be clear cut at all that the loss of ice can be attributed to green house gas and the loss may be temporary rather than an inexorable loss as it is sometimes described by AGW proponents.

http://climatedepot.com/a/2226/Now-Debuting-Climate-Depot-Arctic-Fact-Sh...

The article is from climate depot which has its slant, but the studies cited are from the UK Met, NASA, Nature and other sources which have mostly been supportive of AGW.

Annoymouse's picture

Lord Monckton’s summary of Climategate and its issues

Monckton: Caught Green-Handed - Climategate Scandal

http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/images/stories/papers/originals/Monckt...

Keenan's picture

Cherry-picked out-of-context private emails and papers...

in no way constitute proof of a big “AGW Hoax” or a “Climategate” smoking gun, as these well known anti-environmental fringe groups like to claim.

Let’s start by getting some perspective on this whole debate:

1) These well known anti-environmentally-biased fringe organizations/people (including CATO, WSJ, James Delingpole, P.J. Gladnick, etc.) making these hyperbolic assertions have NO credibility on the issue.

2) These types of hyped claims ("The Anthropocentric Global Warming Theory is Finished!", "It's All Been Proven to be a Hoax!", blah, blah, blah) by global warming deniers have been made continuously for decades every time any scrap of potentially contrary material has been discovered (or manufactured), regardless of how weak or irrelevant these scraps invariably turn out to be.

3) It’s important to acknowledge that this collection of yet to be authenticated leaked emails and papers (a presumably careful selection of (possibly edited?) correspondence dating back to 1996 and as recently as Nov 12) by only 3 or 4 climate research scientists (out of 2500 climate scientists globally) that, among other things, seem to show them reacting badly to the pressure from skeptics, did not occur in a vacuum. Rather, the long running and viscous campaign waged against climate research scientists by the fossil fuel industry and anti-environmental interests is essential to identify and acknowledge before one can understand the context of the hostile and adversarial environment these scientists were operating in.

4) It is more than likely that in any organization you will find people saying things in private emails with the assumption that they will never be made public, that would embarrass people or that would indicate people talking about things in a flippant/disrespectful manner or openly discussing ideas/proposals that might be considered unethical but never get beyond the discussion phase (i.e., are never implemented). In other words, by stealing private emails, you could easily dig up dirt on just about anyone, whether deserved or not.

5) The timing of this particular episode is highly suspicious - occurring just on the eve of the COP15 Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen, as well as the first US Senate debate on a possible new carbon trading regime. There is very good indication that this episode is part of a pre-planed smear campaign by certain interests/individuals who have a history of using dirty tricks against their opponents.

There may or may not be proof of unethical behavior by the few scientists named in these stolen correspondence, and it is an important issue that needs to be investigated. If any proof of such behavior is subsequently discovered, then the individual(s) involved should be reprimanded, and possibly some rules of transparency should be revamped to ensure that the highest quality of scientific ethics and disclosure are adhered to. But, before people make any hasty conclusions about the issue, they first need to make sure that they have a proper understanding of the context and a balanced view of the whole science and debate around AGW and the politicization of such, as well as the key actors, interests, and tactics that have been brought to bear in the history of this extremely politicized debate and ongoing disinformation campaigns.

FULL DISCLOSURE: I have been involved with the environmental movement since the mid-1990's and have a degree in Environmental Studies from UCSC. In 2000 I was working with Greenpeace on the Climate Campaign and got to attend the UN Global Climate Change Talks 2000 (COP-6) in The Hague Netherlands as an observer with 220 other students and youth from the US.

The Importance of Fact Checking and Bias Checking

Before really getting into the nitty gritty of these complex scientific debates and addressing the contents of these stolen papers/emails, it behooves us to proceed with caution and to not just blindly accept any and all claims and opinions being published on the internet, or in the popular media for that matter, on the issue without checking into the biases and credibility of the individuals/entities making such claims. There has been quite a history of certain interest groups and problematic con artists attempting to sway public opinion and manipulate the science on the issue for their own nefarious purposes. There are some groups that should be mentioned in particular that have been heavily involved with disinformation campaigns on the issue:

1) the fossil fuel and related industries
These interests have poured literally billions of dollars into efforts to counter the AGW science and manipulate public opinion. They have created or funded hundreds of organizations that fight against environmental regulations and attempt to sway public opinion away from environmental advocacy, utilizing every dishonest tactic in their bag of disinformation tricks.

ExxonMobil is probably the most notorious and aggressive fossil fuel corporation in this endeavor.

The denial industry by George Monbiot
ExxonMobil is the world's most profitable corporation. Its sales now amount to more than $1bn a day. It makes most of this money from oil, and has more to lose than any other company from efforts to tackle climate change. To safeguard its profits, ExxonMobil needs to sow doubt about whether serious action needs to be taken on climate change. But there are difficulties: it must confront a scientific consensus as strong as that which maintains that smoking causes lung cancer or that HIV causes Aids. So what's its strategy?

http://www.Exxonsecrets.org

The website Exxonsecrets.org, using data found in the company's official documents, lists 124 organisations that have taken money from the company or work closely with those that have. These organisations take a consistent line on climate change: that the science is contradictory, the scientists are split, environmentalists are charlatans, liars or lunatics, and if governments took action to prevent global warming, they would be endangering the global economy for no good reason. The findings these organisations dislike are labelled "junk science". The findings they welcome are labelled "sound science".

I highly recommend reading the full article The Denial Industry

2) right wing free market fanaticism - libertarians, right-wing republicans, the christian right, etc.

The "libertarian"/objectivist ethics are based on unhindered self-determination. Radical self-interest. A view of freedom in which we are all able to be as selfish as we want as long as we don't shit on our neighbors. But of course that involves a tiny little perspective that doesn't view the people outside our field of view as being our neighbors.

Since free market capitalism is the single best way of ruining the environment yet conceived, and since free market capitalism is also the "ideal" of "freedom" as theorized by right-"libertarians" like Ayn Rand and acolytes like Alex Jones, the only choice is between denying the severity of the ecological problem or accepting that free-market capitalism is indeed collective suicide. It's much easier to reject the science than reject one's most cherished beliefs on human freedom (no matter how ridiculous -- and the idea that capitalism has anything to do with freedom is indeed a ridiculous notion).

Examples of right-wing free market fanatic publications/groups involved in the issue:

WALL STREET JOURNAL: this is about the most anti-environmentally-biased major newspaper you could possibly find on the entire planet. Pretty much goes with the philosophy and morals of Wall Street, whose mantra is: Profit above people, the environmental, labor, democracy, community sustainability, or anything else, PERIOD.

CATO INSTITUTE: Funded by right wing wealthy families, right wing foundations, and corporations such as ExxonMobil. According to wikipedia: The Cato Institute is a pro-free market, libertarian think tank headquartered in Washington, D.C.
[...]
Cato has held a number of briefings on global warming with global warming skeptics as panelists. In December 2003, panelists included Patrick Michaels, Robert Balling and John Christy. Balling and Christy have since made statements indicating that global warming is, in fact, related at least some degree to anthropogenic activity.
[...]
Three out of five "Doubters of Global Warming" interviewed by PBS's Frontline were funded by, or had some other institutional connection with, the Institute.

3) Front Groups funded by fossil fuel or other industries and right-wing anti-environmental interests
examples:
The Advancement of Sound Science Coalition (TASSC): according to wikipedia: an industry-funded lobby group which promotes the idea that environmental science on issues including smoking, pesticides and global warming is "junk science", which should be replaced by "sound science". It is operated by Steven Milloy from his home in Potomac, Maryland.
[...]
TASSC was created in 1993 by the APCO Worldwide public relations firm, and was funded by tobacco company Philip Morris (now Altria). TASSC was listed in a confidential Philip Morris memo under "PM Tools to Affect Legislative Decisions".[1]. The leading public advocate of TASSC is Steven Milloy, whose webpage junkscience.com was, until 2006, affiliated with the Cato Institute.
Initially, the primary focus of TASSC was an attempt to discredit research on Environmental Tobacco Smoke as a long-term cause of increased cancer and heart problem rates in the community -- especially among office workers and children living with smoking parents [1]. It subsequently advanced industry-friendly positions on a wide range of topics, including global warming, smoking, phthalates, and pesticides. Later still, they extended the role of TASSC to Europe using Dr George Carlo. TASSC used the label of 'junk science' to criticise work that was unfavorable to the interests of its backers.
[...]
TASSC was only one of many such groups.

The Fossil-Fuel-Funded Denial Industry
Nothing that these 3 or 4 scientists named in Britain's Climate Research Unit of the University of East Anglia email bruhaha have been caught doing, as indicated by (a fair, contextual interpretation of) these emails comes even close to being comparable to the unethical and criminal behavior that the climate change denial industry has been observed and documented doing for the last 2 decades. The fossil fuel industry has funneled literally billions of dollars into trying to persuade the world that climate change is not taking place by misrepresenting the science and in some cases outright fabricating the science - we’re talking about direct and straight forward scientific fraud. In one instance, they published a paper that was made into a counterfeit National Academy of Sciences Proceedings, copying the font and format, with a forward by a previous chairman of the National Academy of Science, to fraudulently make it look as if it was in fact from that organization. That document has become known as the "Oregon Petition" and purports to contain 17,000 signatures of "scientists" opposing efforts to curb AGW, but in fact is one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated in an effort to discredit and roll back concern over AGW. See Case Study: The Oregon Petition from sourcewatch.org

This is just one incident among an endless history of dirty tricks that have been utilized by these disinformationists for a long time.

At the very least I think it has to be acknowledged that many of these "man-made global warming skeptics" have intimate ties to extremely powerful energy corporations, groups which obviously have a vested interest in disputing the scientific consensus:

Excerpts from The Heat is on: The Climate Crisis, the Cover-Up, the Prescription, by Ross Gelbspan, published by Addison Wesley Longman, May 1997.

Sellout Scientists:
Industry-funded Skeptics Undermine Global Warming Consensus

Even as global warming intensifies, the evidence is being denied with a ferocious disinformation campaign. This campaign is waged on many fronts: in the media, where public opinion is formed; in the halls of Congress, where laws are made; and in international climate negotiations. In their most important accomplishment, global warming critics have successfully created the general perception that scientists are sharply divided over whether it is taking place at all.

Key to this success has been the effective use of a tiny band of scientists -- principally Drs. Patrick Michaels, Sherwood Idso, Robert Balling, and S. Fred Singer -- who have proven extraordinarily adept at draining the issue of all sense of crisis. Deep-pocketed industry public relations specialists have promoted their opinions through every channel of communication they can reach. They have demanded access to the press for these scientists' views, as a right of journalistic fairness.

Unfortunately, most editors are too uninformed about climate science to resist. They would not accord to tobacco company scientists who dismiss the dangers of smoking the same weight that they accord to world-class lung specialists. But in the area of climate research, few major news stories fail to feature prominently one of these handful of industry-sponsored scientific "greenhouse skeptics."

If the public has been lulled into a state of disinterest, the effect on decision makers has been even more effective. Testimony by industry-sponsored skeptics contributed to the defeat of proposals to increase the cost of fossil-fuel generated power, to cut the climate research budget, and to discredit the scientific findings of the UN's Intergovernmental Panel of Climate Change (IPCC), which represents the consensus of 2,500 scientists.

The rise to prominence of most of these greenhouse skeptics is spelled out in several reports of the Western Fuels Association, a Washington, DC-based nonprofit consortium of coal utilities and suppliers. In its 1994 annual report, Western Fuels declared that "there has been a close to universal impulse in the [fossil fuel] trade association community here in Washington to concede the scientific premise of global warming... We have disagreed, and do disagree, with this strategy."

To counter it, the group said it would support the work of those who challenged the findings of the world's leading scientists. Among them: Dr. Pat Michaels, associate professor of climatology at the University of Virginia; Dr. S. Fred Singer, also of UVA; and Dr. Robert Balling, director of the climatology program at Arizona State University.

Dr. Pat Michaels calls his industry-funded publications serious journals of climate science. However, he ignores the fact that all research sponsored by the federal government is subjected to the exacting requirements of scientific proof through a system of review by other experts. By contrast, Michaels' research is frequently published in industry journals without undergoing this kind of rigorous scientific scrutiny. Michaels has even referenced articles by E. Keith Idso, son of greenhouse skeptic Dr. Sherwood Idso, which were later published in the New American, the newsletter of the John Birch Society. (World Climate Review, Volume 1, Number 4.)

Witness this passage by Michaels in the Fall 1994 issue of World Climate Review: "The fact is that the artifice of climate-change-apocalypse is crumbling faster than Cuba... There is genuine fear in the environmental community about this one, for the decline and fall of such a prominent issue is sure to horribly maim the credibility of the green movement that espoused it so cheerily."

In the winter 1993 issue, he wrote of government-sponsored climate research scientists: "The fact is that virtually every successful academic scientist is a ward of the federal government. One cannot do the research necessary to publish enough to be awarded tenure without appealing to one or another agency for considerable financial support... Yet these and other agencies have their own political agendas."

By attacking these scientists as politically motivated, Michaels succeeded in having his testimony judged as credible by the House Science Committee, and was able to help secure funding cuts for programs to study the global climate.

In May 1995 testimony under oath to the Minnesota Public Utilities Commission, Michaels revealed under oath that he had received more than $165,000 in industry and private funding over the previous five years. Not only did Western Fuels fund two journals that he edited -- his World Climate Review and its successor newsletter World Climate Report -- but it provided a $63,000 grant for his research. Another $49,000 came to Michaels from the German Coal Mining Association and $15,000 from the Edison Electric Institute. Michaels also listed a grant of $40,000 from the western mining company Cyprus Minerals, the largest single funder of the anti-environmental Wise Use movement.

It is quite extraordinary that with such ties, Michael's testimony at congressional hearings chaired by Rep. Robert Walker (R-Pa.) and Rep. Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.) was accorded more weight than that of four internationally renowned climate scientists.

The case of Dr. Robert Balling is equally intriguing. A geographer by training, much of Balling's research focused on hydrology, precipitation, water runoff and other Southwestern water and soil-related issues until he was solicited by Western Fuels. Balling has since emerged as one of the most visible and prolific of the climate-change skeptics.

Since 1991, Balling has received, either alone or with colleagues, nearly $300,000 from coal and oil interests in research funding, which he also disclosed for the first time at the Minnesota hearing. In his collaborations with Sherwood Idso, Balling has received about $50,000 from Cyprus, $80,000 from German Coal and $75,000 from British Coal Corp. Two Kuwaiti government foundations have given him a $48,000 grant and unspecified consulting fees and have published his 1992 book, "The Heated Debate," in Arabic. The book was originally published by a conservative think tank, the Pacific Research Institute, one of whose goals is the repeal of environmental regulations.

Among the skeptics, Professor S. Fred Singer stands out for being consistently forthcoming about his funding by large oil interests and conservative groups. Singer is director of the Science and Energy Policy Project at the University of Virginia. During a 1994 appearance on ABC's "Nightline," Singer did not deny having received funding from the Rev. Sun Myung Moon (to whose newspaper, the Washington Times, he is a regular contributor and whose organization has published three of his books). Nor has he apologized for his funding from Exxon, Shell, ARCO, Unocal and Sun Oil. Singer's defense is that his scientific position on global atmospheric issues predates that funding and has not changed because of it.

And it is true that Singer held firm to a similar position on another environmental controversy -- despite overwhelming evidence against his position. Singer once warned the oil companies that they face the same threat as the chemical firms that produced chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs), a class of chemicals that was found to be depleting the earth's protective ozone layer. "It took only five years to go from... mandating a simple freeze of production [of CFCs] at 1985 levels, to the 1992 decision of a complete production phase-out -- all on the basis of quite insubstantial science," Singer wrote.

Contrary to his assertion virtually all relevant researchers say the link between CFCs and ozone depletion rests on unassailable scientific evidence. As if to underscore the point, the three scientists who discovered the CFC-ozone link were awarded the Nobel Prize for chemistry. But that did not faze Singer, who proceeded to attack the Nobel committee in the Washington Times. Singer's tantrum against the Nobel committee would be laughable -- except that his views are influential, especially with conservative politicians. Based in part on Singer's work, House Majority Whip Tom DeLay (R-Tex.) and Rep. John Doolittle (R-Calif.) are making an effort to withdraw U.S. participation in the Montreal Protocol, the international compact that mandates an end to production of the chemicals that destroy the ozone layer. Despite the remarkable international consensus on the Montreal Protocol, DeLay used Singer's pronouncements to attribute it merely to "a media scare."


The Disinformation Campaigns of Big Coal -- A Short History


Origins of Fossil Fuel Disinformation Campaigns

From the 1991 "Ice Campaign" run by the coal and utility industries to the Marshall Institute's bogus "Study" of 1998 (which was designed to resemble a National Academy of Sciences document) to the recent efforts of ExxonMobil and Peabody Energy to eviscerate efforts to address the climate crisis, in tandem with the Bush White House, the fossil fuel lobby and its ideological supporters have waged a relentless campaign of deception and disinformation to confuse people about the reality of warming-driven climate change.


In March, 2000, however, the campaign suffered a serious setback when the Global Climate Coalition, the main industry lobbying group, suffered major defections. More than a year after British Petroleum and Shell left the group, it was abandoned by Ford, Daimler-Chrysler, Texaco, The Southern Company, and General Motors. While many of these companies said they still opposed the Kyoto Protocol, their defections nevertheless represented an enormous victory for environmental and religious activists.


The GCC announced it will re-constitute itself as an umbrella group for trade associations rather than individual companies. Since it includes such groups as The American Petroleum Institute, the Automobile Manufacturers' Association and Western Fuels, it is still possible that many auto, coal and oil companies might still support its efforts to prevent the U.S. from taking any meaningful steps to address the climate crisis.


The group has spent more than $63 million to combat any progress toward addressing the climate crisis -- including a $13 million ad campaign in 1997 to support a Senate resolution against ratification of the Kyoto Protocol.


The reason is obvious.


The stabilization of the global climate requires a 70 percent cut in our fossil fuel emissions. That magnitude of reduction threatens the survival, in its present form, of the fossil fuel industry -- one of the largest commercial enterprises in history.


Since 1991, the fossil fuel lobby has attacked mainstream climate science, primarily through its use of a tiny handful of "greenhouse skeptics." It has also misrepresented the economics. Most recently, it has attacked the diplomatic foundations of the international climate convention.


The Western Fuels Association -- a $400 million coal cooperative -- is one of the leaders in this campaign of disinformation. Western Fuels has been quite candid about its attack on mainstream science. In one annual report, it declared: "...[T]here has been a close to universal impulse in the [fossil fuel] trade association community in Washington to concede the scientific premise of global warming...while arguing over policy prescriptions that would be the least disruptive to our economy...We have disagreed, and do disagree, with this strategy." As a result, Western Fuels has waged an unceasing war against mainstream science for the last eight years.


The Global Climate Coalition -- a lobbying group that represents fossil fuel, automotive and heavy industry interests -- has also been very active in spreading misleading information about the climate crisis.


A third institution that has contributed significantly public confusion on the climate issue is the George C. Marshall Institute, an extreme, politically conservative institute which maintains that the climate crisis is basically a liberal plot to subvert the U.S. economy.


Taken together, the various campaigns of disinformation have been extraordinarily successful in maintaining a relentless drumbeat of doubt in the public mind about the reality of global climate change.


Most recently, the main purveyors of disinformation on the climate have been funded by ExxonMobil, which funds a number of skeptics and an array of policy institutes which continue either to deny the reality of climate change or to minimize its importance.


By keeping the discussion focused on whether or not there is a problem, the fossil fuel lobby has effectively prevented discussion in the U.S. about what to do about it.


Things to keep in mind:

- There is an overwhelming concensus amongst the World's 2500 climate scientists that Anthropogenic Global Warming is very real and is a serious issue. Thousands of peer-reviewed papers have been published proving AGW

- There is overwhelming physical and empirical evidence from hundreds of independent lines of data/observational evidence that correlate and corroborate each other regarding AGW

- It is very hard to find a single scientist (and there are a relatively few among the 2500 global climate scientists), who disputes the basic facts of Anthropocentric Global Warming, who is without funding from the fossil fuel or related industries.

- Not a single scientist who disputes the basic facts of Anthropocentric Global Warminga has published a peer-reviewed paper - until the 2003 publication of the Soon and Baliunas paper, in which skeptics managed to take over a peer-reviewed journal by buying it from the publisher and then corrupting the peer-review process, prompting the resignation of the chief editor and half the editorial board over the blatant corruption of the peer-review process. See Stormy Times For Climate Research for the whole story.

- The documented manipulation by the Bush Administration and other governments most corrupted by fossil fuel special interests (such as Australia under the John Howard Administration) to re-write the conclusions of the reports on global warming by government scientists in order to downplay/suppress the level of concern/seriousness of the issue of AGW indicates that the elites, if they are involved in manipulation of climate science, have primarily tried to suppress the alarm over AGW rather than exaggerate it, contradicting the claims of pushers of the "AGW is a hoax” hypothesis.

To expect to find evidence of an over-arching global conspiracy by the "NWO elites" to manufacture an "Anthropogenic Global Warming Hoax" in some email discussions between the climate research scientists is naive at best, even if it were true. But nothing contained in the emails provides any evidence whatsoever of any such thing, just potentially bad behavior by a few scientists in response to the harassment from skeptics. Reading through the emails, one finds that there is no evidence of any worldwide conspiracy, no mention of George Soros or the Rockafellers nefariously funding climate research, no grand plan to ‘get rid of the Medieval Warming Period’, no admission that global warming is a hoax, no evidence of the falsifying of data, and no ‘marching orders’ from socialist/communist/vegetarian overlords. The truly paranoid will probably put this down to the hackers also being in on the plot though.

Mainly this is just a really sad development that is sure to intensify the polarization of the whole climate change issue that will create gridlock and prevent any possibility of sensible policy consensus (which is undoubtedly one of the primary goals of those behind this latest episode) and, with Alex Jones' predictable over-hyped sensationalistic BS over the issue, will further discredit 9/11 Truth by association with raving right wing anti-environmentalist, anti-progressive-everything-ist extremists :(

Annoymouse's picture

"Things to keep in mind:-

"Things to keep in mind:

- There is an overwhelming concensus amongst the World's 2500 climate scientists that Anthropogenic Global Warming is very real and is a serious issue. Thousands of peer-reviewed papers have been published proving AGW"

"Cherry-picked out-of-context private emails and papers in no way constitute proof of a big “AGW Hoax” or a “Climategate” smoking gun, as these well known anti-environmental fringe groups like to claim."

Ooooooooh kaaaaaaaay.

Conspiracy Law & Legal Definition

Conspiracy is a separate offense, by which someone conspires or agrees with someone else to do something which, if actually carried out, would amount to another Federal crime or offense. It is an agreement or a kind of partnership for criminal purposes in which each member becomes the agent or partner of every other member. It is not necessary to prove that the criminal plan actually was accomplished or that the conspirator was involved in all stages of the planning or knew all of the details involved. The main elements that need to be proven are a voluntary agreement to participate and some overt act by one of the conspirators in furtherance of the criminal plan. If a person has an understanding of the unlawful nature of a plan and knowingly and willfully joins in that plan on one occasion, that is sufficient to convict him for conspiracy even though he had not participated before and even though he played only a minor part. A conspiracy may exist when the parties use legal means to accomplish an illegal result, or to use illegal means to achieve something that in itself is lawful.

Wheel and chain conspiracies are two types of conspiracies described in prosecuting offenders. A chain conspiracy involves parties linked together in a linear fashion. Typical drug or firearm smuggling organizations are chain conspiracies. It may consist of a series of drug deals, from manufacturer to the street dealer. In a wheel conspiracy, the ringleader is the "hub" and subsidiary parties are the "spokes". It is generally easier for prosecution to prove that a "chain" constituted a single conspiracy than it is to prove that a "wheel" was a single organization.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/conspiracy/

William Schlesinger on IPCC: “something on the order of 20 percent have had some dealing with climate.”

During the question and answer session of last week’s William Schlesinger/John Christy global warming debate, (alarmist) Schlesinger was asked how many members of United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) were actual climate scientists. It is well known that many, if not most, of its members are not scientists at all. Its president, for example, is an economist.

Rajendra Pachauri, Chairman of the IPCC – trained initially as a railway engineer

This question came after Schlesinger had cited the IPCC as an authority for his position. His answer was quite telling.

First he broadened it to include not just climate scientists but also those who have had “some dealing with the climate.” His complete answer was that he thought, “something on the order of 20 percent have had some dealing with climate.” In other words, even IPCC worshiper Schlesinger now acknowledges that 80 percent of the IPCC membership had absolutely no dealing with the climate as part of their academic studies.

This shatters so much of the alarmists’ claim, as they almost always appeal to the IPCC as their ultimate authority.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/02/17/william-schlesinger-on-ipcc-someth...

Al Gore sued by over 30.000 Scientists for fraud

Al Gore and James Hanssen are members of the infamous social engineering squad the Club of Rome.

In a report titled "The First Global Revolution" (1991) published by the Club of Rome, a globalist think tank, we find the following statement: "In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill... All these dangers are caused by human intervention… The real enemy, then, is humanity itself.

"Richard Haass, the current president of the Council on Foreign Relations, stated in his article "State sovereignty must be altered in globalized era," that a system of world government must be created and sovereignty eliminated in order to fight global warming, as well as terrorism. "Moreover, states must be prepared to cede some sovereignty to world bodies if the international system is to function," says Haass. "Globalization thus implies that sovereignty is not only becoming weaker in reality, but that it needs to become weaker. States would be wise to weaken sovereignty in order to protect themselves..."




Al Gore sued by over 30.000 Scientists for Global Warming fraud




So much for "consensus."

Vincent Gray on Climategate: ‘There Was Proof of Fraud All Along’ (PJM Exclusive)

By Vincent Gray, November 27, 2009

Nothing about the revelations surprises me. I have maintained email correspondence with most of these scientists for many years, and I know several personally. I long ago realized that they were faking the whole exercise.

When you enter into a debate with any of them, they always stop cold when you ask an awkward question. This applies even when you write to a government department or a member of Parliament. I and many of my friends have grown accustomed to our failure to publish and to lecture, and to the rejection of our comments submitted prior to every IPCC report.

But only recently did I realize that I had evidence of their fraud in my possession almost from the birth of my interest in the subject.

I had copies of these two papers in 1990:

Jones, P. D., P. Ya. Groisman, M. Coughlan, N. Plummer, W. C. Wang & T. R. Karl 1990. Assessment of urbanization effects in time series of surface air temperature over land, Nature 347 169- 172.

Wang, W-C, Z. Zeng, T. R Karl, 1990. Urban Heat Islands in China. Geophys. Res. Lett. 17, 2377-2380.

The first paper has been the major evidence presented by Jones in all of the IPCC reports to dismiss the influence of urban change on the temperature measurements, and also has been used as an excuse for the failure to mention most of the unequivocal evidence that such urban effects exist. The paper was even dragged out again for the 2007 IPCC report.

The second paper, which shared authors Wang and Karl from the first paper, used the very same data from China which the first paper used to demonstrate the absence of urban influence — yet instead concluded that same data to be proof of the existence of urban influence.

In 2007, the following paper exposed the whole business:

Keenan, D.”The Fraud Allegation Against Some Climatic Research of Wei-Chyug Wang. Energy and Environment, 18, 985-995.

The author Keenan obtained the original Chinese data and found the claim that the data referred to a continuous series was unfounded. He accused Wang of fraud — and it is interesting to read that Tom Wigley (of the CRU emails) agrees with him.

Wigley fails to say, however, that his colleagues Jones and Karl are guilty of much worse than Wang — as they continued to use their fraudulent paper to boost their constant and sometimes daily assertion that recent global temperatures are unprecedented.

Wang was cleared of fraud by his university. But what about Jones and Karl?

In 1999, I had a stroke of luck. I asked one of the IPCC officials for the data from which one of their maps was compiled, and I received it. I wrote a paper analyzing the results and submitted it to Geophysical Research Letters. They just sat on it. I instead published it on John Daly’s website. Today, it is still the only paper recognized by Google on “Regional Temperature Change.”

I now know my paper was not critical enough, since we have proof that the basic data and its processing is far more dubious than I had envisaged.

I tried to update my paper and resubmit it. Nothing doing. Since the small group — revealed within the CRU emails — control most of the peer reviewers, very few peer reviewed papers which criticize that group are allowed to appear in the most prominent published literature which dominates the academic establishment.

I have only been able to find a place to release my criticisms on the internet, now the only realm where unfettered scientific discussion is possible.

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/vincent-gray-on-climategate-there-was-proof...

So much for "peer review" of papers.

Bombshell UN Documents Outline Plan To Use Climategate Crooks In “End Run” Around National Sovereignty

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Tuesday, December 1, 2009

Shocking newly uncovered UN strategy documents reveal how elitists are recruiting members of academia from all over the globe in an effort to hide the “end-run” around national sovereignty that their agenda represents, emphasizing how the climategate crooks who were recently caught manipulating scientific data in order to “hide the decline” in global warming are working with the United Nations in the pursuit of a world government justified by the global warming fraud that they are helping to perpetrate.

One of the planning papers, entitled “The UNEP That We Want,” was produced by a specially selected group of influential environmental bureaucrats and delivered to the UNEP Executive Director Achim Steiner.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/113009_IISDreport.pdf

The United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) is the regulatory body that established the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the politicized organization that has attempted to slam the lid shut on global warming skepticism by claiming it is the supreme authority, despite the fact that scientists used by the IPCC were caught manipulating data and conspiring to hide evidence of global cooling during the climategate scandal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/nov/29/ipcc-climate-change-le...

The IPCC has attempted to deny the gravitas of climategate by claiming that it has no bearing on their conclusions about global warming, despite the fact that scientists at the University of East Anglia used intimidation and academic witch hunts to ensure that data they didn’t agree with politically was blocked from appearing in the IPCC’s fourth assessment report, which was published in 2007.

Participants who contributed to the first UNEP document included Janos Pasztor, currently head of the team pushing U.N. Secretary General Ban Ki-moon’s unprecedented Seal the Deal lobbying campaign to pressure U.N. member governments into signing a new environmental agreement at Copenhagen, Dominic Waughray, currently head of environmental initiatives at the World Economic Forum; and Maria Ivanova, and Bulgarian academic Maria Ivanova, director of the Global Economic Governance Project at the Yale Center for Environmental Law and Policy.

The first document is very similar to a second UNEP paper entitled, “Proposed Medium Term Strategy 2010-2013.”

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/113009_unepstrategy.pdf

The documents outline a program of implementing a global system of governance based around environmental regulations and laws, stressing the agenda for the “evolutionary nature of strengthening international environmental governance.”

The aim of elevating UNEP’s influence to a position where it dictates rules to nation states, rather than nation states being the supervisors of UNEP as is currently the case, is advocated.

The documents discuss recruiting academia to further the power of UNEP, noteworthy in light of the recent climategate scandal where scientists at major universities were caught hiding evidence of global cooling.

“As the Swiss paper puts it, UNEP “should pioneer a new style of work. This requires going beyond a narrow interpretation of UNEP’s stakeholders as comprising its member states — or even the world’s governments — and recruiting a far wider community of support, in civil society, the academic world and the private sector.” At the same time the paper warns that these groups need to be “harnessed to the UNEP mission without appearing to make an end-run around the member governments,” summarizes Fox News’ George Russell.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,577827,00.html

This passage is fairly damning, as the UN is all but admitting that the program does represent an “end-run around member governments,” and that they have to do their best to hide the fact. That academics should be “harnessed to the UNEP mission” and not harnessed to producing unbiased scientific data about global warming also reveals how the climate change issue has been hijacked to serve the requirements of a global elite hell-bent on world government.

The first document also calls for an “Environmental Bretton Woods for the 21st Century,” where the environmental agenda is inextricably linked with the economy and the UN’s role is to have command over the economies of national governments.

The goals included in the four-year strategy paper include “efforts at local, national and global levels” to raise “sufficient finance to meet environmental challenges, including climate change,” which translates as using the problem of global warming to raise money for the operation of the global government structure which is being called for in the planning papers.

The goals enshrined in the documents, a counterpart to the globally binding agreement the UN is seeking to achieve in Copenhagen next month, are “certain to remain a UNEP rallying cry long after the Copenhagen meeting is over — and while the other brainstorming ideas that went into the new four-year strategy, not to mention the strategy itself, go into effect,” writes Russell.

This document represents yet another smoking gun proving that the climate cult movement is all about expanding the power of a dictatorial, unelected global government, diluting powers of nation states, seizing control of the global economy, eviscerating the middle class with a raft of new regulations and laws, and shutting down industry with impossible CO2 reduction mandates, while erecting environmentalism, which is really a thin veil for global fascism, as the new universal religion.

This has nothing to do with saving the earth and, as the climategate scandal has illustrated, nothing to do with the real science – but everything to do with a relatively small clique of globalists running roughshod over humanity itself in pursuit of their malthusian control freak agenda.

http://www.infowars.com/bombshell-un-documents-outline-plan-to-use-clima...

Keenan's picture

Annoymouse, If you think that Fox News, Anthony Watts,

Vincent Gray, and Alex Jones/Paul Joseph Watson are credible sources on this issue and are fair or balanced in the least, then I'm afraid you have your own serious bias to deal with. I'll let folks research these disinformationists for themselves to see what kinds of severe credibility and bias problems they have, and then come to their own conclusions, but I don't want to waste my time with such nonsense...

Annoymouse's picture

No issues with Schlesinger

No issues with Schlesinger and Monkton? 20% of 2500 is about 500 IPCC climatologists. Not so impressive of a figure that would allow for a claim of consensus among climatologists, eh? Jones/Watson didn't write the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) papers that were linked by FOX. Did Fox just make them up? And, 30,000 scientists who sued Al Gore are paid by whom to do so? As far as Gray is concerned, why not allow a peer review, crush his work, and expose him?

Everyone should be concerned about the distinct possibility that Prof. Jones, et al, prevented the work of others from receiving review, and fudged, omitted, manipulated, and maybe shredded data, most of which was probably acquired with public funds. If you are so sure of an impending warming catastrophe, you should welcome a full investigation that is at least likely to get us closer to the truth.

Jon Stewart Talks Climategate



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgPUpIBWGp8

It's the sun, silly. Better get some extra union suits cause it's gonna get butt-freezing cold.

The Sun: falling into an even deeper funk
2 12 2009

With Climategate sucking all the oxygen out of the blogosphere, we’ve neglected some of our regular reporting duties here at WUWT.

Thanks to Paul Stanko, who has been tracking sunspots for WUWT for awhile now who writes in with this update. It looks like we’ll soon surpass 2008 for the number of spotless days. – Anthony

Guest post by Paul Stanko

With November now in the past, I’ve got a fresh set of statistics, and it looks like this cycle is falling ever further into an even deeper funk. The attached graphics are revamped according to Leif’s impromptu peer review and I believe are
much improved. They are a few days old, though.

The 2009 spotless days are now 262 and the cycle 24 spotless days are now 774. On the cycle graph, I now calculated three different sets of spotless days per cycle. Minimum just counted the actual observed and reported days of zero sunspots. Maximum assumed that all missing obs were zero sunspot days. Likely assigned spotless days to the missing obs in the same ratio as the reported obs for that year.

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/02/the-sun-falling-into-an-even-deepe...

This is interesting. I thought Hansen was a member of the "We Ain't Got No Time to Wait" club.

NASA’s James Hansen: Copenhagen should fail

The scientist who convinced the world to take notice of the looming danger of global warming says it would be better for the planet and for future generations if next week’s Copenhagen climate change summit ended in collapse.

In an interview with the Guardian, James Hansen, the world’s pre-eminent climate scientist, said any agreement likely to emerge from the negotiations would be so deeply flawed that it would be better to start again from scratch.

“I would rather it not happen if people accept that as being the right track because it’s a disaster track,” said Hansen, who heads the Nasa Goddard Institute for Space Studies in New York.

“The whole approach is so fundamentally wrong that it is better to reassess the situation. If it is going to be the Kyoto-type thing then [people] will spend years trying to determine exactly what that means.” He was speaking as progress towards a deal in Copenhagen received a boost today, with India revealing a target to curb its carbon emissions. All four of the major emitters – the US, China, EU and India – have now tabled offers on emissions, although the equally vexed issue of funding for developing nations to deal with global warming remains deadlocked.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2009/dec/02/copenhagen-climate-cha...

juandelacruz's picture

IPCC conflict of interest?

I will not deny that there has been and probably still are some people funded by big oil and coal that advocate against AGW. However, the conflict of interest can cut both ways.

Dr Rajendra K. Pachauri, chairman of the UN IPCC is also the current director general of The Energy and Resources Institute (TERI).   TERI is a partner of the Tata group in a CO2 recycling project.  Now the Tata group has an European unit CORUS, which was allocated carbon allowances (called EUA's) worth £100  million in current prices and expected to increase in value significantly in the future.  By closing down its steel plant in the UK and participating in the  UN's Clean Development Mechanism, CORUS stands to make even more money.

info came from

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=118659 

 

 

Now just because the head of the IPCC has commercial ties to a company that will benefit a lot from carbon trading initiatives does not mean that the science behind AGW is necessarily bad. I would think that the same goes for AGW skeptics though, just because big oil/coal is aligned with their position does not automatically invalidate their opinion. As I always said, let the science convince us, and frankly I am not yet convinced of AGW.

Keenan's picture

Evidence of involvement by "Swift Boat" dirty tricks operatives?

The more one looks into this whole UEA hacked e-mail bruhaha, the more one finds evidence that there are connections to a pre-planned and well coordinated and sophisticated operation by notorious long-time right-wing dirty trickster operatives.

The first clue to look at is Qui Bono? Let's start with the timing. The storyline is too clever, the timing on the brink of both the Copenhagen (COP-15) Climate Talks and the US climate bill too convenient. Obviously, there are very powerful interests that we can easily identify who have $Billions, if not $Trillions at stake and would very much like to sabotage both of those policy-making initiatives one way or another. Can you guess who these might be?

The second clue is to look into the key individuals/organizations most closely associated with this smear campaign and see what we find. This story of the hacked UEA e-mails has been led from the beginning by the denial site clmatedepot.com. The coordinator of climatedepot.com is Marc Morano, a libertarian right self publicist and former aid to the outspoken denier Senator Inhofe, who has been seeking to become a kingpin in the climate denial industry.

Swift Boating the Climate Scientists

Marc Morano? Just who is Marc Morano? Let's go to sourcewatch.org and find out. Ok, I'll reprint some of the text for you here:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Marc_Morano
Marc Morano runs the climate denial website ClimateDepot.com for the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow, a conservative anti-environmentalism think tank. Until spring of 2009, Morano served as communications director for the Republicans on the U.S. Senate Committee on Environment and Public Works. Morano commenced work with the committee under Senator James Inhofe, who was majority chairman of the committee until January 2007 and is now minority ranking member. In December 2006 Morano launched a blog on the committee's website that largely promotes the views of climate change skeptics.
Morano is a former journalist with Cybercast News Service (CNS), which is owned by the conservative Media Research Center. CNS and Morano were the first source in May 2004 of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth claims against John Kerry in the 2004 presidential election [1] and in January 2006 of similar smears against Vietnam war veteran John Murtha.
Morano was "previously known as Rush Limbaugh's 'Man in Washington,' as reporter and producer for the Rush Limbaugh Television Show,
as well as a former correspondent and producer for American Investigator, the nationally syndicated TV newsmagazine."[1]

Wow. I don't know about you, but it seems to me that this whole UEA e-mail campaign seems to go much deeper than the purported notion that some random climate skeptic hacker just happened to obtain compromising internal documents that just happened to have happened right at the most unfortunate time one could possibly imagine for those concerned about trying to mitigate the Global Warming crisis (and, conversely, at the most fortunate possible time for those who have an interest in opposing any such initiatives) just before some major US policy legislation and international agreements are to be decided. Hmmm...

At the very least the UEA e-mail campaign is an application of the dirty political tactics MO by professional right wing operatives to climate change campaigning. Obtaining compromising internal documents is the holy grail of dirty political campaigns, so why would not campaigners who became accomplished dirty-tricksters in US politics not seek to apply the same tactics against the poorly defended intranet/internet servers of a provincial university? And, as we have learned from the history of the Fossil Fuel Denial Industry, the most underhanded and dishonest right-wing political operatives are more often than not doing the bidding of very powerful corporate/industry interests who seek to destroy anything that stands in the way of their ability to maximize their profits, the environment and the majority of humanity be damned.

Although different in context and content, there are marked similarities between the Swift Boat campaign and the hacking of the UEA e-mails. Both were sophisticated strategies to undermine trust. Both identified trust and integrity as a major strength of the opponent and then played carefully chosen story lines to undermine them. As both national and international climate change policy are still to be decided, I don't think we've seen the last of the dirty tricks operations by any means. I expect more stepped up and viscous efforts to try to sabotage and discredit the publics' trust and respect for the international scientific consensus and research on the issue, along with the campaigns to address the crisis going forward...

juandelacruz's picture

In the end, I think it is

In the end, I think it is the science that should convince us one way or the other. Right now I have doubts that the data backing the IPCC studies are beyond refute, and therefore cannot take its prescriptions at face value.

http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=ZTBiMTRlMDQxNzEyMmRhZjU3ZmYzO...

Keenan's picture

"In the end, I think it is the science that should convince us"

I completely agree with this statement.

But, just as important is this question: Who should you trust to report on the science?

I noticed that you linked to an article from the National Review. Do you know anything about National Review? This is an important question because, if you actually looked into who those folks are, you should have second thoughts about trusting anything from that source when reporting on environmental issues. Again, Juan, I can't stress enough how important it is to do some fact checking and bias checking before uncritically accepting an opinion piece on the Global Warming issue.

Here, I'll give you some leads. First of all, we can start with wikipedia. Here is what wikipedia says about National Review:

National Review (NR) is a biweekly magazine founded by the late author William F. Buckley, Jr. in 1955 and based in New York City. It describes itself as "America's most widely read and influential magazine and web site for Republican/conservative news, commentary, and opinion."
[...]
Buckley, a Skull and Bones secret society member, champion debater and former editor of The Yale Daily News, soon rose to national prominence. After a short stint in the CIA, he toured the country debating for The Intercollegiate Society of Individualists (ISI), contributed to The American Mercury, and soon decided to start his own magazine.
[...]
Many of the magazine's commentators are affiliated with think-tanks such as the Heritage Foundation and American Enterprise Institute. Prominent guest authors have included Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, and Sarah Palin in the online and paper edition.

So, first off we see that National Review is NOT a scientific publication, so they have no real depth of understanding of the issue of Global Warming. Secondly, we see that they represent the right-wing libertarian/conservative philosophy, which includes at it's core an anti-environmentalist streak. In fact, do the entities and individuals NR is associated with - the Heritage Foundation, American Enterprise Institute, Newt Gingrich, Mitt Romney, and Sarah Palin - raise any red flags for you, Juan? If not, you might want to look into who those entities and individuals are.

So, my question to you is: Why would you trust the opinion of a rabidly right-wing anti-environmental non-scientific publication over the IPCC, which represents the scientific consensus of the world's 2500 climate scientists? What is your logic here?

Let's review the sources you've cited so far in this thread:

Your first post in this thread is from KEITH JOHNSON of the WALL STREET JOURNAL. Please see my comments above regarding the bias of the WSJ.

Your second article you posted is from James Delingpole. Google James Delingpole and the first link that comes up is Delingpole's own web site, with the first sentence beginning with, "James Delingpole is a libertarian conservative ..." Need I say more?

Your third article you posted is from P.J. Gladnick. If you do some checking, you will find that P.J. Gladnick is a right-winger with an anti-environmental bias.

So, the point is, Juan, that when you search for opinion pieces on the internet on the complex GLobal Warming Issue, it's important to not just uncritically accept anything that matches your pre-determined conclusion, if you want a source that has any credibility, because, as we've seen, you can easily find something on the internet to support any possible position on any controversial issue no matter how unfounded or blatantly unscientific it is. And when it comes to the Global Warming issue, the amount of disinformation out there is truly massive.

So, if you are really serious about your statement above that, "In the end, I think it is the science that should convince us", then I would suggest that you do more fact checking and bias checking before uncritically accepting opinions or sources on the Global Warming Issue just because they might match your pre-determined position on the matter. And, as far as scientific credibility goes, you will be hard pressed to find a source more credible than the IPCC, which represents the overwhelming consensus of the 2500 climate scientists around the world who have published thousands of peer-reviewed research articles. The credibility of the sources you've used so far on the issue can't even come close to the credibility of the IPCC...

Annoymouse's picture

"And, as far as scientific

"And, as far as scientific credibility goes, you will be hard pressed to find a source more credible than the IPCC, which represents the overwhelming consensus of the 2500 climate scientists around the world who have published thousands of peer-reviewed research articles. The credibility of the sources you've used so far on the issue can't even come close to the credibility of the IPCC..."

William Schlesinger on IPCC: “something on the order of 20 percent have had some dealing with climate.”
17 02 2009

http://www.johnlocke.org/lockerroom/lockerroom.html?id=18982

During the question and answer session of last week’s William Schlesinger/John Christy global warming debate, (alarmist) Schlesinger was asked how many members of United Nation’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) were actual climate scientists. It is well known that many, if not most, of its members are not scientists at all. Its president, for example, is an economist.

JLF/Reese Institute climate change forum: Part 7 of 8



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08hd141-Hac

Rajendra Pachauri, Chairman of the IPCC – trained initially as a railway engineer

This question came after Schlesinger had cited the IPCC as an authority for his position. His answer was quite telling.

First he broadened it to include not just climate scientists but also those who have had “some dealing with the climate.” His complete answer was that he thought, “something on the order of 20 percent have had some dealing with climate.” In other words, even IPCC worshiper Schlesinger now acknowledges that 80 percent of the IPCC membership had absolutely no dealing with the climate as part of their academic studies.

This shatters so much of the alarmists’ claim, as they almost always appeal to the IPCC as their ultimate authority.

Al Gore sued by over 30.000 Scientists for Global Warming fraud / John Coleman



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfHW7KR33IQ

Keenan's picture

Good points

I agree that it's probably better to not mix with 9/11. I resisted chiming in to this thread for as long as I could, hoping it would go quietly away...but, alas, since others kept it going I figured I might as well jump in and attempt to provide some balance to counteract so much disinfo being posted, and I do know a bit about the issue...

Unfortunately, no matter what we do here, its obvious that the issue will be hammered at incessantly by the Alex Joneses for the foreseeable future, and, like I mentioned above, will undoubtedly further polarize and damage the 9/11 Truth movement by association...which is probably intentional by certain professional sensationalist BS artists :(

But, as it is, I think I'm done posting on this thread as I think I've pretty much covered the relevant points, and any further debate would probably just result in people repeating themselves...

kate of the kiosk's picture

polarization/shared focus

"...further polarize and damage the 9/11 Truth movement by association..."

 

my fear

and just when liberals were beginning to have a conversation with libertarians on issues of sovereignty, the constitution, freedom,  9/11 truth and justice. 

 

 

juandelacruz's picture

Thanks Keenan for providing

Thanks Keenan for providing a counterpoint to my articles. I appreciate your defense of IPCC and its methods.

I will admit that I am not always equipped to tackle every topic myself, so at times I have to rely on other people's opinions too. Your pointing out to check sources for bias is a point well taken.

After 9-11 however, I will always be skeptical of every institution making bold assertions unless I am satisfied myself of their position.

The UN, under which the IPCC operates has 192 member states. Yet the UN stood by as Afghanistan, and specially Iraq was attacked by the US and its dandy coalition.

So saying that X thousand scientists are on board AGW no longer cuts it for me. As I stated earlier, let the science convince. Unfortunately the scientists, in the UEA case have been less than transparent with their data and models. If UEA were alone in this shenanigan, then that would not be much, but as I posted above, in the NASA and New Zealand case, temp data seemed to have been manipulated on purpose.

Lastly, it matters less to me whether the source of the information is left or right wing. The left is just as complicit in the 9-11 coverup as the right. So it is not an advantage or a disadvantage with regards to which wing it originated from unless I can find one without any political bias at all. That leaves very little sources of information however so I take my info from wherever it makes the most sense rather than which political leaning it came from. Perhaps I can take scientific journals as my only source, but as has been illustrated in some of the emails from UEA, and in the case of Steven Jones research even that source is not always bias free. In fact you can say that sometimes, even science journals are anti truth and gatekeepers of the "concensus".

If AGW science eventually explain away all questions including those from the biased skeptics. Then I am willing to accept their proponent's assertions and perhaps their very costly prescriptions as well.

Keenan's picture

To address some of your points...

Juan: After 9-11 however, I will always be skeptical of every institution making bold assertions unless I am satisfied myself of their position.
The UN, under which the IPCC operates has 192 member states. Yet the UN stood by as Afghanistan, and specially Iraq was attacked by the US and its dandy coalition.

Healthy skepticism is a good thing to maintain in this ‘age of endless deceit’ and with the obscene levels of corruption infecting so many of our important institutions, so I would never advocate a blind a priori trust in any powerful institution today. I do believe, however, that the IPCC’s built-in checks and balances in the extensive peer review structure, and broad democratic participation of 130 countries and level of transparency so far has proven itself worthy of a high level of trust.

The UN is not one monolithic, single-purpose entity. The structure of the undemocratic Security Council seems designed to allow the bullies unlimited power to run roughshod over the rest of the world, while on the other hand, there are certain other UN programs and projects that actually benefit some less powerful third world countries and indigenous populations, and provide a forum that they might not otherwise have. The UN’s IPCC group is very highly regarded by scientists all over the world, with the exception of a relatively small handful of loud-mouth contrarians and usual suspects.

Juan: So saying that X thousand scientists are on board AGW no longer cuts it for me. As I stated earlier, let the science convince. Unfortunately the scientists, in the UEA case have been less than transparent with their data and models.

Perhaps you could turn out to be right, pending the outcome of a fair investigation and examination of the facts, but the important thing to keep in mind is that:

1) If you removed those scientists involved in the UEA case, along with all their contributions to the issue, you would still be left with the fact that the remaining massive body of evidence still overwhelmingly supports the AGW theory, and there would still be an overwhelming global scientific consensus of thousands of relevant scientists on AGW. Nothing with regard to this UEA situation changes that.

2) When considering the full context, it is not clear from the purloined e-mails that the scientists involved actually attempted to hinder the free exchange of scientific information, despite what the over-hyped statements by certain contrarians claim.

The most troubling messages refer to deleting e-mails to avoid disclosure in the event of a freedom of information request. If such deletions did occur, that would be a serious breach of scientific ethics and public trust. The author of the emails, Phil Jones, has stated, however, that he never actually "deleted any emails or data." People should await the results of an investigation (that has just been initiated) before drawing any conclusions on the matter.

Another complicating issue with the FOI requests was the fact that the UEA CRU (Climate Research Unit) was blocked from releasing certain data that had restrictions in place by the originating organizations (the various National Met. Services) of various countries, which provided the data to the CRU on the understanding it wouldn’t be passed on to third parties. For a discussion of this situation, go here. "The reasons for restricting access is often commercial, NMSs are often required by law to have substantial income from commercial sources, in other cases it can be for national security reasons, but in many cases...the reasons simply seem to be [arbitrary by a particular government]" - and not the fault of the CRU.

There were situations in which repeated FOI requests for the same blocked data were made over and over again, frustrating both originators of the requests, as well as the scientists at the CRU who had to waste time on the paperwork involved, which in some cases appeared to be intentional harassment by certain organized skeptics operatives.

Regardless, about 95% of the climate data was always made freely available by the CRU. "The vast majority of the data in the HadCRU records is publicly available from GHCN (v2.mean.Z)."

Then there was the issue of the scientists discussing how to block a certain contrarian paper from being included in the IPCC AR4 and “Redefine the peer-reviewed literature" (because they considered it to be shoddy research that didn’t meet the peer-review standard and should never have been published). The chairman of the IPCC pointed out that that contrarian paper still made it into the IPCC final document anyway.

In some cases, adding in the proper context completely changes the meaning and interpretation of what on the surface might first appear as a “gotcha!” e-mail of misbehavior, as in the case of that e-mail that has been completely misinterpreted and bandied about in which the phrase “hide the decline” and “trick” was used:

"I've just completed Mike's Nature trick of adding in the real temps to each series for the last 20 years (i. e. from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith's to hide the decline." (from Phil Jones).

As it turns out, it had nothing at all to do with any kind of deception to fabricate a warming scenario to replace a cooling scenario, as certain uninformed critics are screaming. In fact “hide the decline” has to do with discussion of a complex set of experimental tree ring proxy data in one location diverging from temperature data, and the word “trick” is being used in the way that mathematicians and scientists often use the word to refer to a clever method/solution to deal with a complicated problem, which in this case had to do with removing noise in the relationship between tree ring data and temperature data to get a meaningful data signal.

Context is crucial. It can completely change the meaning. Go here for a full discussion of the context of some of these emails at issue.

Juan: If UEA were alone in this shenanigan, then that would not be much, but as I posted above, in the NASA and New Zealand case, temp data seemed to have been manipulated on purpose.

Well, I would again point out that things are often not as they seem, particularly when you are dealing with the well-oiled machinery and slick tactics of AGW denialists.

I hate to break it to you, but the claims you took at face value regarding the NASA and New Zealand cases of manipulated data are more examples of blatant disinformation by the accusers themselves. Again, be careful about fact checking with these sorts of claims rather than uncritically assuming they have any credibility. In these cases, the people making those claims turn out to be well-practiced in the arts of deception of the right-wing fringe denialist persuasion who are not the least bit interested in the truth. Yes, I know, it's a sad state of affairs, isn't it?

You might want to look up this "Christopher Booker" fellow of the right-wing London Telegraph who published this story accusing NASA of fraud and see what he's been up to...it ain't pretty...

In the case involving NASA, it turns out that there was a trivial mistake made that was corrected within 24 hours. Mistakes do occasionally happen. The mistake originated with NOAA who provided the data, not NASA, and there is no evidence whatsoever that it was intentional, despite what the frothing-at-the-mouth deniers claimed. Yet another example of the deniers camp making a mountain out of a molehill and finding "evidence" of fraud where there is none - that is, none except that originating from themselves...

For the "Climategate - New Zealand edition" story by disinformationist P.J. Gladnick, well, guess what? It's yet another blatant piece of disinformation and outright lies, which originated with the cranks in the New Zealand Climate “Science” Coalition (the New Zealand Climate Science Coalition isn't made up of climate scientists, but is just a group of global warming skeptics who gave themselves a fancy title). It turns out that their fancy chart is an outright lie and the original chart by the NIWA is the correct one after all. The pathetic liars got caught combining temperature data from different places to get rid of the inconvenient warming trend in New Zealand. Check out the full story here: NZ sceptics lie about temp records, try to smear top scientist

Yep, that's right. No Climategate-New-Zealand...no Climategate-US...no Climategate-UK...no Climategate-NASA...just Denialgate.

Are you starting to see a pattern, here, Juan? It seems that the AGW deniers have been caught with their pants down, endlessly lying and smearing legitimate climate scientists, so consistently that at this point, they should pretty much automatically be assumed to be engaging in disinformation and not given the benefit of the doubt at all. They are about as sleazy and disgusting as it gets when it comes to an organized cadre of professional dirty tricksters trying to manipulate public opinion.

Juan: Lastly, it matters less to me whether the source of the information is left or right wing. The left is just as complicit in the 9-11 coverup as the right. So it is not an advantage or a disadvantage with regards to which wing it originated from unless I can find one without any political bias at all. That leaves very little sources of information however so I take my info from wherever it makes the most sense rather than which political leaning it came from.

I guess the point in pointing out the right-wing fringe connections to these deniers and disinformationists is that:

1) The right-wing fringe has shown itself to have total contempt for science, and, with it's philosophy of radical self-interest, pretty much precludes it from being considered to have any genuine concern for the environment or humanitarian values, so that disqualifies them on matters concerning the environment more than any other group.

2) The right-wing has a really bad track record of whoring themselves out and doing the bidding of corporate/industrial interests that consistently and aggressively stand in the way of policies to protect the environment and block any regulations against environmental destruction, no matter the consequences for everyone else.

As far as the left being "just as complicit in the 9-11 coverup as the right", I would slightly disagree. It would be more accurate to say that it is the Left Gatekeepers and fake "left leaders" who are just as complicit in the 9-11 coverup and do not truly represent the views of the (radical) left population, whereas, the majority of those who are 9-11 truth advocates seem to come from the leftist/progressive persuasion, in my experience.

Juan: Perhaps I can take scientific journals as my only source, but as has been illustrated in some of the emails from UEA, even that source is not always bias free.

I would agree that the peer-reviewed scientific journals are the most credible sources in general, and as long as there is a robust peer review process in place, most biases or shenanigans would usually get uncovered pretty fast. I don't think the UEA situation is really as bad as it has been made out to be, but we should find out soon enough what the real situation is with that.

Juan: If AGW science eventually explain away all questions including those from the biased skeptics. Then I am willing to accept their proponent's assertions and perhaps their very costly prescriptions as well.

If skeptics can't put together a scientifically valid counter-argument that would pass muster in a respectable scientific peer-reviewed journal, than their questions aren't worth wasting much time over.

As far as the costly prescriptions of AGW proponents, we should of course be vigilant that any new taxes or other costs imposed are equitable and fair and make sense, and are not misused by politicians for other hidden agendas. Fortunately, most solutions that make sense that would lower emissions, such as a shift to renewable energy and away from fossil fuels, are a "no regrets" solution than benefit society in multiple ways besides just lowering global warming emissions, such as lowering air and water pollution, reducing dependence on foreign supplies of energy, reducing the power of fossil fuel monopolies, and decentralizing the power and control over energy sources. Any new taxes implemented should be "revenue neutral", in that, other taxes on wages and such should be lowered proportionately with increased carbon taxes, for example. In fact, the prescriptions aren't, or shouldn't be very costly at all, except to those interests who are profiting off of the current destructive system, such as the fossil fuel and related industries.

juandelacruz's picture

Thanks for taking the time

Thanks for taking the time to cover this issue. I am awaiting the investigation of the CRU case but your post has gone a long way to counter the mistrust I have with AGW.

Keenan's picture

The IPCC's peer review process is much more rigorous than for

Scientific Journals. Here is a description of the process from the UCS web site:

"The IPCC’s technical reports derive their credibility principally from an extensive, transparent, and iterative peer review process that, as mentioned above, is considered far more exhaustive than that associated with scientific journals."

http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/science/ipcc-ba...

[...]
Authors, Contributors, and Reviewers
The technical support units, co-chairs, and bureaus of each working group together assemble a list of proposed authors for its assessment, but the lead authors are selected by the entire working group. Governments and non-governmental organizations around the world are invited to nominate potential authors.

A government nomination does not imply that the scientist’s views are endorsed by that government, or that the scientist is expected to represent his or her government’s view. It may mean that a government has provided a scientist with financial support, but many scientists receive no financial support at all and others are merely reimbursed for travel expenses. Experts from developing nations who have received no financial support from their government are supported through the IPCC trust fund.

From these nominations, the full working group membership confirms 5 to 10 lead and coordinating lead authors, as well as two review editors, for each chapter of its assessment; every chapter must have at least one lead author from a developing country. In general, the appointed scientists are widely recognized experts who represent a broad range of expertise and opinion; they may come from academia, research facilities, industry, government, and non-government organizations (NGOs). A complete list of the lead authors is available at the IPCC website (www.ipcc.ch).

Lead authors and coordinating lead authors prepare a first draft of their chapter over a period of several months, reviewing and synthesizing peer-reviewed scientific literature. Lead authors also consult with expert scientists in the field, inviting those with needed expertise to serve as contributing authors. The chapter teams hold several author meetings to clarify the issues and reach agreement on the text’s scope, balance, and conclusions. Contributing authors help write specific sections, contribute specific data, or represent particular viewpoints. Though lead authors typically solicit such contributions, scientists are also encouraged, both individually and by their countries, to become contributing authors by submitting relevant material directly to the working group’s chairs.

The resulting first draft of a chapter then undergoes two rounds of scientific review and revision (described more fully below) before being finalized. Many authors attest that this review process ranks among the most extensive for any scientific document. For comparison, a paper published in a peer-reviewed science journal is typically reviewed by only two or three experts.

The revised chapters are then combined into a technical report by the technical support units and circulated to governments and NGOs accredited by the IPCC before being considered and “accepted” at the working group’s plenary session. Acceptance in this context means that government representatives to the IPCC agree that the documents present an objective, comprehensive, and balanced scientific review of the subject matter. Government representatives are not permitted to edit these book-length reports; in the end, it is the authors who bear the sole responsibility for the content of their chapters.

However, government representatives do participate in the line-by-line review and revision of the much shorter summary for policymakers, or SPM, for each technical report. The SPM is written by the working group’s lead authors, reviewed in two stages by technical experts, and finally by government representatives before being accepted at the working group’s plenary session. Each SPM is released separately over the course of several months.

Government representatives may certainly try to influence the SPM wording in ways that support their negotiating positions, but the overriding goal of this process (and a key challenge) is to ensure that the SPM adequately and appropriately represents the underlying technical report prepared by the scientific community. Therefore, all of the lead authors and at least several contributing authors are expected to attend their working group’s plenary session so they can render interpretations, suggest clarifications, and ensure scientific integrity. Differing views are welcomed as long as there is empirical evidence or plausible reasons to support them.

The Peer Review Process
The IPCC’s technical reports derive their credibility principally from an extensive, transparent, and iterative peer review process that, as mentioned above, is considered far more exhaustive than that associated with scientific journals. This is due to the number of reviewers, the breadth of their disciplinary backgrounds and scientific perspectives, and the inclusion of independent “review editors” who certify that all comments have been fairly considered and appropriately resolved by the authors. For example, see [2].

To be as inclusive and open as possible, a balanced review effectively begins with the choice of lead authors. By intentionally including authors who represent the full range of expert opinion, many areas of disagreement can be worked out in discussions among the authors rather than waiting until the document is sent out for review.

The first round of review is conducted by a large number of expert reviewers—more than 2,500 for the entire AR4—who include scientists, industry representatives, and NGO experts with a wide range of perspectives. Lead authors are required to consider all comments and incorporate those with scientific merit—a process overseen by review editors (two per chapter) who have expertise in the specific topic covered by a given chapter. All review comments are archived together with the authors’ responses and/or resulting actions, and are available upon request.

If major differences emerge, lead authors are encouraged to organize a meeting with both the contributing authors and review editors to discuss and resolve the differences. The goal is not to reach a potentially “watered-down” compromise that conceals scientific uncertainties or real differences in expert opinion, but to produce a report of the highest scientific integrity, reflecting the state of our understanding fairly and adequately.

The revised draft is then sent back to the expert reviewers and also to government representatives for the so-called government review stage. Each government is entitled to organize any type of review process it deems appropriate. The U.S. government, for example, seeks comments from agencies, scientific experts, and the general public (through a notice in the Federal Register) as the starting point for its comments. Again, lead authors prepare revisions in response to scientifically valid comments, and encourage reviewers and other experts to resolve any remaining major differences by communicating directly. The resulting document is then submitted to the working group’s plenary session for consideration and acceptance.

Representing a Range of Expert Opinions
As mentioned above, one critical strategy the IPCC uses to ensure the scientific credibility and political legitimacy of its reports is to represent the range of scientific opinion on climate change fairly. To this end, the IPCC provides several channels for input from experts along the entire spectrum of opinion, including global warming contrarians.

First, accredited NGOs from all sides of the issue are welcome as observers at the opening plenary session and some other sessions over the course of the report production cycle. In addition, well-known contrarians can and do become contributing authors by submitting material to lead authors, and play advisory roles for their governments by working with government representatives to revise and approve the final SPMs. (See [2].)

The presence of climate change experts from industry and environmental organizations in the assessment process also illustrates the IPCC’s desire to seek input from outside traditional research institutions. Industry examples have included representatives from the Electric Power Research Institute and ExxonMobil. Environmental examples have included representatives from Environmental Defense, the Natural Resources Defense Council, and others all over the world.

Climate contrarians frequently claim that the IPCC produces politically motivated reports that show only one side of the issues. Given the many stages at which experts from across the political and scientific spectrum are included in the process, however, this is a difficult position to defend. [3]

Furthermore, according to IPCC principles, lead authors are “required to record views in the text which are scientifically or technically valid, even if they cannot be reconciled with a consensus view.” [4]

Consensus Building within the IPCC
The word “consensus” is often invoked, and sometimes questioned, when speaking of IPCC reports. In fact, there are two arenas in which a consensus needs to be reached in the production of IPCC assessments; one is the meeting of the entire IPCC, in which unanimity is sought among government representatives. Even though such consensus is not required (countries are free to register their formal dissent), agreement has been reached on all documents and SPMs to date—a particularly impressive fact.

Consensus is also sought among the scientists writing each chapter of the technical reports. Because it would be clearly unrealistic to aim for unanimous agreement on every aspect of the report, the goal is to have all of the working group’s authors agree that each side of the scientific debate has been represented fairly.

The Role of Governments
Although AR4 is a scientific report, its purpose is to inform international political negotiations on climate issues. Therefore, governments—as the key stakeholders in these negotiations—play an essential role in the report’s production. Government representatives propose authors and contributors, participate in the review process, and help reach a consensus on the report’s major findings. This can result (especially in the SPMs) in language that is sometimes weaker than it otherwise might be.

But it also means that governments cannot easily criticize or dismiss a report that they themselves have helped shape and approved during political negotiations. As Sir John Houghton, co-chair of TAR Working Group I, once put it: “Any move to reduce political involvement in the IPCC would weaken the panel and deprive it of its political clout. . . . If governments were not involved, then the documents would be treated like any old scientific report. They would end up on the shelf or in the waste bin.” [5]

It is important, however, to reiterate a fundamental point about IPCC assessments: although governments are involved in the process and support it financially, science ultimately predominates. The chapters that underpin all the documents are written by and under the control of scientists, and scientists ensure that all the documents are both consistent with the findings of each chapter and scientifically credible in their own right.

CONCLUSION
The inclusive process by which IPCC assessments are developed and accepted by its members results in reports of exceptional scientific credibility. As such, AR4 (as proved to be the case with the three previous IPCC assessments) has the potential to be extremely influential in the formation of climate policy over the next several years.

REFERENCES
1. IPCC website. About IPCC. Online at www.ipcc.ch/about/about.htm
2. Edwards, P., and S. Schneider. 1997. Climate change: Broad consensus or “scientific cleansing”? Ecofables/Ecoscience 1:3–9.
3. Masood, E. 1996. Head of climate group rejects claims of political influence. Nature 381:455.
4. IPCC website. Principles & procedures. Online at www.ipcc.ch/about/procd.htm.
5. Alfsen, K., and T. Skodvin. 1998. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) and scientific consensus, Policy Note 1998: 3. Center for International Climate and Environmental Research, University of Oslo.

juandelacruz's picture

Rigorous but still human

Just to point out that despite this many layered checks and balances, mistakes do happen. When we are expected to bet our collective economic future on AGW science, they better get it very right.

Himalayan glaciers melting deadline 'a mistake'
By Pallava Bagla in Delhi

Mount Everest and Khumbu glacier
The Himalayas hold the planet's largest body of ice outside the polar caps

The UN panel on climate change warning that Himalayan glaciers could melt to a fifth of current levels by 2035 is wildly inaccurate, an academic says.

J Graham Cogley, a professor at Ontario Trent University, says he believes the UN authors got the date from an earlier report wrong by more than 300 years.

He is astonished they "misread 2350 as 2035". The authors deny the claims...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8387737.stm

Keenan's picture

Well, I checked into this...

Let’s do some critical analysis and fact checking on this article and see what we come up with...I’ll walk through it with you:

So, we have this report currently multiplying and snowballing around the internet that is sending global warming skeptics into an orgiastic tizzy because the IPCC was apparently caught making a massive faux pas where they allegedly misread 2350 as 2035 as the year when the Himalayan glaciers are predicted to vanish. Professor Graham Cogley (Trent University, Ontario) is the skeptics’ “hero” who busted the IPCC with this triumphant gotchya! He claims to have discovered this error in the IPCC documents, WGII 2007 p. 493, and thinks he knows exactly how it got there. How did this brilliant skeptic discover this amazing screw-up? Well, the astute Professor Cogley just so happened to remember an article from 1996 on the future of glaciers by a Russian scientist - Kotlyakof, V.M. - who estimates 2350 as the year for disappearance of glaciers (Kotlyakov, V.M., 1996, The future of glaciers under the expected climate warming, 61-66, Kotlyakov, V.M., ed., 1996, Variations of Snow and Ice in the Past and at Present on a Global and Regional Scale, Technical Documents in Hydrology, 1. UNESCO, Paris (IHP-IV Project H-4.1).

Now let’s look at the IPCC document. Page 493 of the IPCC document reads as follows:

Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world (see Table 10.9) and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at the current rate. Its total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2035 (WWF, 2005).

Well, there you have it! Those gosh darn hacks at the IPCC were so incredibly sloppy, they moved up the impending doom of the Himalayan glaciers by a whole 300 years just because of a dumb misread that none of the other clueless scientists at the IPCC bothered to check, destroying the credibility of the whole IPCC in the process. Case closed, IPCC’s credibility trashed, score one for the skeptics, right?

Um, actually, not so fast. Anybody else see a problem here? Let’s reread that passage again from the IPCC document on page 493, quoted above. Notice the single reference to WWF, 2005? Well, that doesn't look much like a reference to Kotlyakov, 1996, does it? Ah, I know what the confusion must be! Perhaps WWF, 2005 references Kotlyakov, 1996 and either the WWF paper misread the date from Kotlyakov, 1996, or the IPCC misread the date from WWF, 2005, and the mistake propagated thusly? That must be what happened, right? Ye...well, no. Not at all, actually. The paper, WWF (WorldWildlife Fund), 2005:An overview of glaciers, glacier retreat, and subsequent impacts in Nepal, India and China.WorldWildlife Fund, Nepal Programme, 79 pp., says:

As discussed in the thematic introduction to this regional status review, there is particular concern at the alarming rate of retreat of Himalayan glaciers. In 1999, a report by the Working Group on Himalayan Glaciology (WGHG) of the International Commission for Snow and Ice (ICSI) stated: "glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 is very high". Direct observation of a select few snout positions out of the thousands of Himalayan glaciers indicate that they have been in a general state of decline over, at least, the past 150 years.

Hmm...That’s interesting. Did you see that? Not only is there no reference to Kotlyakov, but that paper has also referred to “2035” as the year the Himalayan glaciers will disappear. The plot thickens. Maybe the WWF misquoted the ISCI '99 report? Obviously they're not quoting Kotlyakov's 1996 paper from the same group, since nothing in that quote resembles anything in K'96. So...let’s look at the ISCO ’99 report and see if it says 2035 or 2350. Well, guess what? Not only does the ISCO ’99 report use the year 2035, it also does not reference Kotlyakov. According to this the ICIS'99 quote can be attributed to Ajay K. Naithani et.al. of said working group, not Kotlyakov. The Independent and Christian Science Monitor reported on the same 1999 study at the time, here and here. Syed Iqbal Hasnain, another author of the '99 report, was actually just quoted defending his own numbers a month ago in a skeptic's rag. So...not a misquote or typo to be found on the part of the IPCC or with any scientists who agree with AGW, anywhere.

Jeebus! So all this furor and confusion and IPCC bashing was...much ado about nothing? Yet another attempted smear against AGW scientists based on blatant falsehoods? Just more hot air and bluster from climate skeptics, yet again attempting to unfairly malign and inpugn the science as well as the scientists of AGW? Gosh, where have we seen this type of situation before? Oh, I remember now...This only happens whenever...actually, every single time somebody passes on an article from the intertubes that takes a denialist...I mean....skeptic point of view on AGW, questioning the motives or integrity or reliability of the scientists who are part of the overwhelming consensus of AGW, without exception!.

So, our brilliant and astute professor Graham Cogley ain’t so brilliant and astute after all, is he? Nor are all the frothing-at-the-mouth AGW deniers who immediately picked up this story and unleashed it into the vast Denialsphere echo chamber without bothering to do any fact checking, which seems to be par for the course with these types. And even the more “liberal” BBC, who picked up this story and passed it along without doing any fact checking doesn’t come out looking too good, either: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8387737.stm. Worthless journalism!

But wait, there’s more! We’re not done exposing the sloppiness and pathetically useless research ability of this crank Professor Graham Cogley. Because, if he had bothered to actually read the Kotlyakov paper properly, he would have realized that Kotlyakov’s study and the ISCI '99 study were not even comparable, and were based on totally different temperature projections. Kotlyakov 96 isn't referenced directly in either the IPCC report or the WWF report or the ISCO ’99 report. So. let’s read what the Kotlyakov paper actually said:

There has been a dramatic shrinkage-----d late even at catastrophic rates—in the glaciation area of the Tien Shari Mountains and within Central Asia. This results in a growing intensity of deglaciation-derived runoff and in its volumetric increase. The increment maximum (relative to 1975) is to be attained by the year 21100 [sic, 2110, it's an OCR doc], with a 3.5- fold increase in the absolute volume of melt-derived runoff; this volume will be declining with subsequent warming. The scope of the glaciation area decrease is impressive indeed. Glaciers will remain only in the high mountain parts of Central Asia, in compact glaciation areas.... The degradation of the extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be apparent in rising ocean level already by the year 2050, and there will be a drastic rise of the ocean thereafter caused by the deglaciation-derived runoff. This period will last from 200 to 300 years. The extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates—its total area will shrink from 500,000 to 100,000 km² by the year 2350. Glaciers will survive only in the mountains of inner Alaska, on some Arctic archipelagos, within Patagonian ice sheets, in the Karakoram Mountains, in the Himalayas, in some regions of Tibet and on the highest mountain peaks in the temperature latitudes.

So, first of all we see that the Katlyakov report is discussing the global glacier situation, not the Himalayan glaciers that the IPCC 2035 year was based on. How sloppy and clueless does this professor Cogley have to be to not notice this? Furthermore, Katlyakov’s 2350 projection is premised on a temperature rise in Central Asia of 1.5C by 2350 (from their 1990 temperatures, at that), which on an offhand google search is more than a few degrees less than is expected by the end of this century by said IPCC. Duh! Is Prof Cogley smoking crack or what?

Where did this crank Cogley get his credentials, anyway? At the University of BS? or from the Institute of Clueless Idiots, perhaps? I think Cogley should have his credentials revoked for ruining the reputation of his Alma Mater.

So, what can we all learn from this? It seems that in every single Denialist article that somebody copied or linked to on this thread in which I did some fact checking, every single one of them turned out to be disinformation. Yep. Every single one without exception!

The AGW “debate” is a fantastic lesson in disinformation, which is educational and useful for all of us who are truth searchers and advocates of one issue or another, and want to be able to figure out how to navigate through all the disinformation.

The debate on AGW boils down this:

1) The debate on the science proving AGW has been won a long time ago. The scientific consensus supporting AGW is undeniable and only gets more solid and overwhelming year after year, despite what the AGW Denialists want you to believe.

2) The fossil fuel industry and their investors are hell bent on transferring every last particle of potential carbon-based fuel resource from under the ground to be exploited and burned into the atmosphere, whereas, the future survivability of most of the human race on the surface of the Earth along with much of the Earth's other species, may very well depend on leaving most of the remaining hydrocarbons under the ground and un-burnt.

3) The AGW Denialists, many of them supported and funded by the fossil fuel industry and right-wing causes, have lost the scientific debate a long time ago and have nothing but disinformation tactics to fall back on at this point.

4) The AGW Denialists’ disinformation tactics make use of every possible disgusting technique in their bag of disinfo tricks, including dishonesty, distortion, slander, misquotes, lies, deception, and falsification of the science in order to unfairly attack the reputations of scientists and the efficacy of the science of AGW itself.

5) The disinformation campaign against AGW is truly massive and awe inspiring and has unfortunately had much success in sowing confusion and mistrust throughout the population in regards to the science of AGW. This was the disinformationists' primary goal, because by keeping the population divided over this issue, they can block most legislative efforts to lower emissions, which is their purpose.

6) This massive disinformation operation is primarily propagated via the vast right-wing media network, front groups, on the internet as well as radio/tv, but also reaches into the more "liberal" mainstream media outlets, many of whom propagate Denialist stories/claims without doing proper fact-checking on the issue because of the need to appear "objective" on the issue by presenting "all sides". But "objectivity" is sure as hell not the same thing as "truth", as we can see with this AGW issue. Not all sides in a particular debate necessarily have any legitimacy or credibility, so "objectivity" is not necessarily a good thing for a reporter or journalist to adhere to. Real journalists should go the extra step and try to do their best to discern truth from disinformation.

7) Based on this track record, no one should ever take any AGW skeptic/denialist story or claim at face value or assume they have any credibility at all without doing rigorous fact checking. Can we all agree that this thread has illustrated this point perfectly?

What say you, truthers? Was this a great lesson in deconstructing disinformation, or what? Or, is there anything we can take from this and apply to the 9/11 issue?

juandelacruz's picture

thanks for the very good

Thanks for the very good fact check, that was a direct hit, Cogley was referring to wrong source.

Here is another article on the topic from a former IPCC reviewer Madhav L Khandekar. He makes the mistake of not checking Cogley's info as you did. He does express reservations about the link between climate change and Himalayan glaciers in contrast to the IPCC report that you cite above.

http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com/2009/12/01/global-warming-and-glac...

He bases his opinion on this recent study:

Himalayan Glaciers
A State-of-Art Review of Glacial Studies,
Glacial Retreat and Climate Change
- V.K.Raina,

http://moef.nic.in/downloads/public-information/MoEF%20Discussion%20Pape...

At this point I will not venture to say if Khandekar is right or wrong. The info is there for anyone to read. I am still struggling with this topic as is obvious here. I would advice everyone else to give Keenan's POV more weight, though I remain a skeptic till the data reviews come out.

bruce1337's picture

Whoa, not so fast!

"1) The debate on the science proving AGW has been won a long time ago. The scientific consensus supporting AGW is undeniable and only gets more solid and overwhelming year after year, despite what the AGW Denialists want you to believe."

Care to discuss this?

What evidence is there, in your opinion, that proves civilization's emissions are the essential driving factor behind "climate change" formerly known as "global warming"; or that this current "climate change" is in any way different to former, entirely natural and quite extensive variations, such as the medieval warm period (experiencing temperatures higher than today, yet experiencing no "ecocide")?

Do you concede that global temperatures have not risen since 1998 while CO2 levels have, unimpeded? Does that not invalidate the current doctrine of "it's all the CO2's (i.e. your) fault!"? How about the obvious fiddling with the data by leading figures of cli-sci-fi? Them retaining only "value-added" data after deleting the original? Guess being able to compare both sets would lead to many more discoveries of this kind...

Also, having a look at these provides an interesting perspective, especially that last graph -- looks like we might soon wish for some "climate change" of the old fashioned "global warming" kind.

Last but not least: Hey everyone. I've never really left, but what was there to say, really? Hope you're all doing well!

_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

gretavo's picture

bruuuuuuuce

wie geht's?

bruce1337's picture

greeeeeeeeat

After one hell of a busy year, I'm now on vacation. And we're freezing our behinds off here! Hope Gore leaves the continent soon...

In any case, excellent timing for this siberian intermezzo.

How are you?

_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

bruce1337's picture

Merry X-mas WTCD!

I'm heading off for a family gathering down south, wishing y'all pleasant celebrations.

PS: in case anyone's interested, I dumped some of my music here

PPS: One more thing (and not to erupt any controversies): I found the banning of Lazlo...disagreeable, shall we say?
_________________________________
happiness is either here or nowhere

Annoymouse's picture

merry xmas bruce and to all!

merry xmas bruce and to all!

Tahooey's picture

nice music!

thanks for sharing Bruce,

hope you are enjoying the holidays.

juandelacruz's picture

In this article, some

In this article, some scientists want to reopen the debate on AGW but seem to be held back by others who in this case seem to be invested in climate science.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/10/taking_liberties/entry5964504.sh...

Annoymouse's picture

re well I checked into this

Thanks for the analysis. I had done part of the same thing but got the wrong quote from the WWF study.
But I disagree with this --
"So...not a misquote or typo to be found on the part of the IPCC or with any scientists who agree with AGW, anywhere."

You note that
"the Katlyakov report is discussing the global glacier situation, not the Himalayan glaciers that the IPCC 2035 year was based on."
but I don't think you realize the significance. The 2007 IPCC talks about the 500 000 to 100 000 km2 AS IF it referred to the Himalayan glaciers.

That's simply wrong and it the numbers are too bizarre to have any other source than the Katlyakov report.
[Central Asia with an estimated total ice cover of 114 800 km2 has as its dominant mountain range the Himalaya, where most of the glaciers occur(33 050 km2) and its adjacent mountain ranges (with corresponding ice areas): Karakoram (16 600 km2), Tien Shan (15 417 km2), Kunlun Shan (12 260 km2) and Pamir (12 260 km2) mountains
& The sum of its glacierised area corresponds to about one sixth of the global ice cover of glaciers and ice caps. http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/pdfs/6_9.pdf ]

To give the IPCC2007 quote again --
"Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any otherpart of the world (see Table 10.9) and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming atthe current rate. Its total area will likely shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2035 (WWF, 2005)."

Compare it with this quote collation article from 1999 -- it has all the elements.

" Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 is very high," says the International Commission for Snow and Ice ( icsi ) in its recent study on Asian glaciers. "But if the Earth keeps getting warmer at the current rate, it might happen much sooner," says Syed Iqbal Hasnain of the School of Environmental Sciences, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi. Hasnain is also the chairperson of the Working Group on Himalayan Glaciology ( wghg ), constituted in 1995 by the icsi.
"The glacier will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates. Its total area will shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 square km by the year 2035," says former icsi president V M Kotlyakov in the report Variations of snow and ice in the past and present on a global and regional scale (see table: Receding rivers of ice ).
http://www.indiaenvironmentportal.org.in/node/319

The IPCC2007 reads like a precis of this, eh?
Perhaps you should take it up with Dr. Cogley.

juandelacruz's picture

sorry i have to beat this dead horse in public, but...

We are supposed to trust the IPCC with our collective future, but it is sloppy* in its research as this case demonstrates in their Assessment Report. How am I suppose to take anything else they say at face value then?

(* I am being charitable here as others accuse the IPCC of willful misinformation)

http://www.chron.com/commons/readerblogs/atmosphere.html?plckController=...

By the way, there will still be glaciers in the Himalayas in 2035
Posted by ng at 12/22/2009 12:05 AM CST

Lost amid the news coverage of Copenhagen and Climategate was the assertion that one of the more attention-grabbing statements of the IPCC AR4 was flat-out wrong:

"Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other
part of the world (see Table 10.9) and, if the present rate
continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035
and perhaps sooner is very high if the Earth keeps warming at
the current rate. Its total area will likely shrink from the present
500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2035 (WWF, 2005)." (IPCC AR4 WG2 Ch10, p. 493)

(Before following any of the links below, I suggest reading my blog entry all the way through. Also, I'll be approving comments only sporadically during the holiday season, so please be patient.)

Roger Pielke Sr.'s blog seems to have broken the news via a guest posting by Madhav Khandekar, and the BBC published a more extensive article on the subject, which seems to have been pretty much ignored since then by the media but has been noted by a few blogs. Khandekar, the BBC, and I all rely on J. Graham Cogley, a glaciologist in the Department of Geography at Trent University, Ontario for pointing this out. Cogley and three colleagues have written a letter to Nature on this subject, and I've since corresponded with Cogley by email.

Both Khandekar and Cogley seem to blame the error on a misreading by the IPCC authors, but I think this is incorrect. The truth is quite a bit more interesting, and the evidence is in the written documents. Let's have a look.

The IPCC report lists a single reference for the paragraph: WWF 2005. This turns out to be a World Wildlife Fund project report (PDF) that was not peer-reviewed. This is a problem; the IPCC is supposed to rely only on the peer-reviewed literature. The WWF report says:

"In 1999, a report by the Working Group on Himalayan Glaciology (WGHG) of the International Commission for Snow and Ice (ICSI) stated: “glaciers in the Himalayas are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the livelihood (sic) of them disappearing by the year 2035 is very high”. Direct observation of a select few snout positions out of the thousands of Himalayan glaciers indicate that they have been in a general state of decline over, at least, the past 150 years.
The prediction that “glaciers in the region will vanish within 40 years as a result of global warming” and that the flow of Himalayan rivers will “eventually diminish, resulting in widespread water shortages” (New Scientist 1999; 1999, 2003) is equally disturbing." (WWF 2005)

This is another problem: the WWF report is only quoting another source, so not only is it not peer-reviewed, it is a secondary source. This leads to the danger that the WWF has not quoted the primary sources completely correctly. (And where did that 500,000 to 100,000 shrinkage come from?) The primary sources are stated to be a 1999 report by WGHG/ICSI and what turns out to be a 1999 article in New Scientist magazine. The latter source wouldn't even be acceptable as a primary source, but let's see what it says:

"A new study, due to be presented in July to the International Commission on Snow and Ice (ICSI), predicts that most of the glaciers in the region will vanish within 40 years as a result of global warming. "All the glaciers in the middle Himalayas are retreating," says Syed Hasnain of Jawaharlal Nehru University in Delhi, the chief author of the ICSI report....Hasnain's four-year study indicates that all the glaciers in the central and eastern Himalayas could disappear by 2035 at their present rate of decline....Hasnain's working group on Himalayan glaciology, set up by the ICSI, has found that glaciers are receding faster in the Himalayas than anywhere else on Earth. Hasnain warns that as the glaciers disappear, the flow of these rivers will become less reliable and eventually diminish, resulting in widespread water shortages."

So New Scientist is not an independent reference; it refers back to the WGHG/ICSI 1999 report. It also quotes the chair of the WGHG, Syed Hasnain, and paraphrases of his statements became quotes in the WWF report.

At this point, all roads seem to lead back to the 1999 WGHG/ICSI report, which proves to be almost impossible to find. I checked with Prof. Cogley, who told me:

"The report has been dug out of the files of the then-Secretary of ICSI and posted at http://www.cryosphericsciences.org/docs.html#ICSI1999. He is still looking for the minutes of the ICSI Bureau meeting. The report was received as Appendix 6. As far as my present understanding goes, the report has been available only to the members of the ICSI Bureau at the time (July 1999), and to anyone else to whom Hasnain may have sent it. You will see that it does not compare Himalayan with other rates of recession and does not mention a date for the disappearance of Himalayan glaciers."

Cogley is correct. There's absolutely nothing in the report that talks about Himalayan glaciers disappearing by 2035, nor is there a comparison between Himalayan glaciers and other glaciers. Did this information appear out of thin air? No, as we will see momentarily.

Recall that the IPCC quote referred to a table. The table lists the retreat of 8 Himalayan glaciers. Only one such retreat is as stated in the WWF report. Another retreat, recorded as 2840 m from 1845-1966, is listed as a rate of 134 m/yr, but the actual rate is 23 m/yr. Whoever did the calculation for the IPCC divided by 21 years instead of 121 years! The rest of the values are from other, unnamed sources.

Meanwhile, there's another quote that's relevant to our story. It comes from the India Environment Portal (IEP), one of several web sites set up by the Government of India to ensure that research news is broadly disseminated and available. This is from an article in 1999:

""Glaciers in the Himalaya are receding faster than in any other part of the world and, if the present rate continues, the likelihood of them disappearing by the year 2035 is very high," says the International Commission for Snow and Ice (ICSI) in its recent study on Asian glaciers. "But if the Earth keeps getting warmer at the current rate, it might happen much sooner," says Syed Iqbal Hasnain of the School of Environmental Sciences, Jawaharlal Nehru University, New Delhi. Hasnain is also the chairperson of the Working Group on Himalayan Glaciology (WGHG), constituted in 1995 by the ICSI.

"The glacier will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates. Its total area will shrink from the present 500,000 to 100,000 square km by the year 2035," says former ICSI president V M Kotlyakov in the report "Variations of snow and ice in the past and present on a global and regional scale"."

There is a remarkable similarity between this article and the IPCC report. The first sentence in the IPCC report seems to me to be a simple paraphrase of the first two sentences from the IEP article, with quotation marks and references removed. The third and final sentence in the IPCC report extract is almost verbatim the second sentence in the second paragraph of the IEP extract above, with the word "likely" added and the quotation marks and attribution removed. The inartfulness of the transfer of verbiage from the IEP to the IPCC explains the first word ("Its") of the second IPCC sentence: there's no single noun to which "Its" can refer in the IPCC quote, but in the IEP quote, "Its" refers to "The glacier" (poor English, but singular) in the previous sentence. To me, this is like a fingerprint: I am convinced that the IPCC author paraphrased the IEP article and leaving off or altering the references.

But at least we've made some progress. Although the prediction of disappearance of glaciers from the Himalayas by 2035 seems to have no more authority than Dr. Hasnain's word for it, there's another reference (Kotlyakov) calling for massive loss of glaciers by 2035.

Cogley found the Kotlyakov report before I did. Here's what it says; brace yourself:

"The degradation of the extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be apparent in rising ocean level already by the year 2050, and there will be a drastic rise of the ocean thereafter caused by the deglaciation-derived runoff (see Table 11 ). This period will last from 200 to 300 years. The extrapolar glaciation of the Earth will be decaying at rapid, catastrophic rates— its total area will shrink from 500,000 to 100,000 km2 by the year 2350. Glaciers will survive only in the mountains of inner Alaska, on some Arctic archipelagos, within Patagonian ice sheets, in the Karakoram Mountains, in the Himalayas, in some regions of Tibet and on the highest mountain peaks in the temperature latitudes."

According to Kotlyakov, the loss of 80% of the extrapolar glaciation on the Earth's surface will be by 2350, not 2035. And even after 2350 there will still be some glaciers surviving in the Karakoram, the Himalayas, and in parts of Tibet.

It's clear from the rest of the paragraph that Kotlyakov means 2350, not 2035. The IEP article uses nearly a direct quote, but substitutes 2035 for 2350. The IPCC then paraphrases the IEP article, including massive glacial retreat by 2035 in the second sentence of the quote. It's not clear whether Dr. Hasnain himself misread the Kotlyakov report as 2035 instead of 2350 or whether he has some independent reason for thinking that glaciers will disappear from most of the Himalayas by 2035. If there is such a reason, I have not found it in the published literature, and neither the IPCC nor the other sources listed above have produced a traceable, correct citation for this assertion.

To recap, the available evidence indicates that the IPCC authors of this section relied upon a secondhand, unreferreed source which turned out to be unreliable, and failed to identify this source. As a result, the IPCC has predicted the likely loss of most or all of Himalaya's glaciers by 2035 with apparently no peer-reviewed scientific studies to justify such a prediction and at least one scientific study (Kotlyakov) saying that such a disappearance is too fast by a factor of ten!

This could have been a small, inconsequential error. The WG2 Chapter 10 authors did not highlight the prediction as a key finding in their executive summary, nor does it appear in the summary for policymakers. But such an astounding prediction could not help but attract attention. And it has long since become effectively common knowledge that the glaciers were going to vanish by 2035.

The Indian environment ministry released a report in November by Vijay Kumar Raina that concluded that Himalayan glaciers on the whole were retreating, but not at an alarming rate or any faster than glaciers on the rest of the globe. According to The Guardian, countryman Rajenda Pachauri, the head of the IPCC, was furious.

"Pachauri dismissed the report saying it was not "peer reviewed" and had few "scientific citations".

""With the greatest of respect this guy retired years ago and I find it totally baffling that he comes out and throws out everything that has been established years ago.""
Given the nature of the peer review and scientific citations in the IPCC report, we have here a case of the pot calling the kettle black.

A news article in Science (Nov. 13, subscription may be required) on the release of the report tries to summarize the reaction of scientists in the field. It says:

"Several Western experts who have conducted studies in the region agree with Raina's nuanced analysis—even if it clashes with IPCC's take on the Himalayas."

"The bottom line is that IPCC's Himalaya assessment got it "horribly wrong," asserts John "Jack" Shroder, a Himalayan glacier specialist at the University of Nebraska, Omaha. "They were too quick to jump to conclusions on too little data." IPCC also erred in its forecast of the impact of glacier melting on water supply, claims Donald Alford, a Montana-based hydrologist who recently completed a water study for the World Bank. "Our data indicate the Ganges results primarily from monsoon rainfall, and until the monsoon fails completely, there will be a Ganges river, very similar to the present river." Glacier melt contributes 3% to 4% of the Ganges's annual flow, says Kireet Kumar."

The Science article also included the following statement:

"Any suggestion that the retreat of Himalayan glaciers has slowed is "unscientific,". The Indian government has an "ostrichlike attitude in the face of impending apocalypse.""

Guess who made this statement?

Dr. Syed Hasnain.

Wow.

Where do we go now? Prof. Cogley told me:

"I would much prefer that we look ahead, in particular to ways of avoiding snafus like the 2035-2350 one in the future. Wherever the 2035 error originated, it took wing and has wasted an awful lot of time."

Annoymouse's picture

Gore cancels lecture during COP15

So, who's he afraid of? Monkton? Can't take the "heat?" Will Gore now be only doing controlled TV appearances?

Watts Up With That
Thursday, December 3, 2009

It seems the uncertainty about Copenhagen is growing. When Al baby pulls the plug, you know it’s hosed.

From Berlingske: Al Gore cancels lecture during COP15

Former U.S. vice president has canceled his event, more than 3,000 Danes have purchased a ticket. Photo: JOSE MENDEZ

Looks like they will get a refund though. Might be worth more as a collectors item in ten years though.

I wonder how many people have shelled out $1200 to shake Al’s hand? Maybe not enough and he couldn’t cover the expenses for his private jet?

From the Washington Post:

“Have you ever shaken hands with an American vice president? If not, now is your chance. Meet Al Gore in Copenhagen during the UN Climate Change Conference,” notes the Danish tourism commission, which is helping Mr. Gore promote “Our Choice,” his newest book about global warming in all its alarming modalities.

“Tickets are available in different price ranges for the event. If you want it all, you can purchase a VIP ticket, where you get a chance to shake hands with Al Gore, get a copy of Our Choice and have your picture taken with him. The VIP event costs DKK 5,999 and includes drinks and a light snack.”

Wait, what? How much is that in American dollars? The currency conversion says it all, too: 5,999 Danish kroners is equivalent to $1,209.

“If you do not want to spend that much money, but still want to hear Al Gore speak about his latest book about climate challenges, you can purchase general tickets, ranging in price from DKK 199-1,499 depending on where in the room you want to sit,” the practical Danes advise. “There will be large screens, so that everyone will get a good view.”

Yah, such a deal.

Watts Up With That
Thursday, December 3, 2009
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/03/gore-cancels-on-copenhagen-lecture...

gretavo's picture

some basics...

I have to admit to being totally ignorant of some of these issues... found this helpful...

 

How is Carbon dioxide a greenhouse gas?

CO2 is a greenhouse gas because it increases the temperature level of the earth in the same way the heat is generated inside the greenhouse where plants are grown. Greenhouses or glass houses trap the heat within thereby increasing the temperature within the glasshouse. In the same way, CO2 acts like a blanket in the earth atmosphere and prevents the heat from escaping from the earth's surface, leading to a rise in global temperatures.

A:

Shortwave energy (that emitted by the sun) passes through the atmosphere pretty much unimpeded, ultimately to be intercepted by the ground. The warm ground emits longwave radiation in proportion to the fourth power of its temperature. In a completely dry, CO2-less and ozone-less atmosphere, this upwelling longwave radiation would all be lost to space. Carbon dioxide absorbs upwelling long wave radiation and re-emits it back to the ground, thereby reducing the amount of heat that escapes to space, warming the planet. The warmer planet evaporates more water, and the water vapor absorbs even more longwave radiation than the carbon dioxide, warming the planet even more.

A:

The two answers above are not quite correct. This is how it works.
Incoming solar radiation is widely distributed across the electromagnetic spectrum. Some wavelengths (mostly visible light) get through the atmosphere to the surface, some don't. Of the radiation that gets through, some is reflected and some is absorbed by the surface of the earth. The reflected radiation is not an issue, because it goes right back into space at the same wavelengths that it came in at, unimpeded, just like on the way in. It is only the absorbed radiation that is a problem. This radiation is later re-emitted, but in the form of Infrared Radiation (IR).
Certain atmospheric gases, known as "greenhouse gases", absorb IR, then re-emit it back into the atmosphere. Some percentage of this re-emitted IR (after a long sequence of re-absorptions and re-emissions by other greenhouse gas molecules) eventually works its way back down to the lower atmosphere and is said to "warm" the surface. This is the "greenhouse effect". The "greenhouse effect", in and of itself, is a completely natural thing, and also a very good thing. Without it, the surface would be far too cold for life as we know it to exist.
At this point, it must be emphasized that carbon dioxide (CO2) is just one of many "greenhouse gases". It is not the most important, nor the most abundant. That distinction belongs to water vapor. Even without carbon dioxide, water vapor alone would cause enough of a greenhouse effect to keep us very near the warm temperatures that we enjoy. Also worth emphasizing is the fact that greenhouse gasses do not "trap" IR. They absorb, then re-emit the IR, in a completely random direction. It could go up, down, sideways, or any direction in between. Re-absorption by other greenhouse gas molecules complicates the path and destination of an individual unit of IR, but what it all boils down to is that something less than half of the IR absorbed by greenhouse gases eventually finds its way back to the surface, with the remainder escaping into space.
Though the greenhouse effect itself is completely natural, and very beneficial, global warming scientists believe that anthropogenic (man-made) emissions of carbon dioxide (mostly from burning fossil fuels) have increased CO2 in the atmosphere to a point where we are now experiencing what could be called an "enhanced greenhouse effect". This artificial enhancement of the greenhouse effect, could cause significant warming of the atmosphere and the surface, over and above what the natural greenhouse effect causes. Though such additional warming will have both positive and negative consequences for human beings and other life on the planet, global warming scientists believe that the negative consequences far outweigh the positive consequences. (However, in reality, they have no scientific basis for that belief - they just believe, just because it's "man-made", just because it's not "natural", that it must be "bad". Even the alarmist IPCC admits that no one can be certain which effects will dominate, but, in true alarmist fashion choose to err on the side of pessimism. But that is a completely different discussion, not appropriate to the question at hand.)
Now, here's an important point that global warming scientists don't mention. Though carbon dioxide definitely absorbs IR, it only absorbs IR in two very narrow ranges of wavelengths, one between 2.5 and 3 microns, and another between 4 and 5 microns. This is a small percentage of the total IR emitted by the surface. I don't know exactly how small (because I can't find any source for the wavelength distribution of IR emitted from the surface), but it's probably less than 10%, and perhaps as low as 4%. And even in those ranges, CO2 has to compete with water vapor, which also absorbs 2.5-3-micron IR. So, even if carbon dioxide in the atmosphere increased a thousand-fold, and even if there was no water vapor, there is a limit to how much IR CO2 can absorb, and that limit is 10% (or less) of all the IR emitted from the surface. And of that 10%, over half of it still ends up escaping into space.
This limit of absorptivity is important because some skeptics argue that, between water vapor and CO2, every available ray of IR within the absorption ranges of CO2 is already being absorbed. Additional molecules of CO2, therefore, will have zero effect on the total absorption of IR. So future warming due to CO2 is simply not possible. The only way CO2 could absorb any more IR than it is already absorbing is if 1) the surface started re-emitting more IR, which could only happen if more sunlight reached the surface, or 2) atmospheric water vapor levels dropped, freeing up more IR to be absorbed by CO2, in which case, warming would not occur, because that radiation was already being absorbed by the water vapor that disappeared. In fact, if the second option occurred, temperatures would in fact drop, because water vapor absorbs IR over a much wider range than CO2, and therefore, CO2 cannot completely offset the loss of IR absorption by water vapor. However, the existence of CO2, replacing the IR absorption of some of the lost water vapor, would mitigate this temperature drop. Therefore, at current levels, CO2 could be said to be somewhat of a stabilizer of the greenhouse effect, taking up part of the slack when water vapor levels drop too low. In this respect, it is good to have an excess of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.
It is also possible that, even at pre-industrial concentrations of atmospheric CO2, we were already above the "saturation point" of IR absorption by CO2, and therefore, even the warming that has occurred in the last 150 years could not have been caused by carbon dioxide.

A:

The answer directly above is also not quite correct.

CO2 absorbs at many different wavelengths. It is true that the 'band saturation effect' can occur, such that absorption in a particular wavelength can be saturated. According to Seinfeld and Pandis (2006), this effect is important for atmospheric CO2, however it does not mean that increases in CO2 have no effect. They say that doubling CO2 from is present day concentration leads to a 10-20% increase in its total greenhouse effect. This is because if absorbs at many different wavelengths. For more information, look up CO2 absorption spectrum in Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, from Air Pollution to Climate Change, by Seinfeld and Pandis (2006).




I don't know what the previous answerer means by "many different wavelengths", but there are, in fact, an infinite number of wavelengths between 2.5 and 3 microns. So, yes, in that respect, it is true that CO2 absorbs IR over "many different wavelengths". But it's still less than 10% of the total IR emitted by the Earth's surface. And it still has to competed with water vapor over those wavelengths, and the it is still a valid point that increasing CO2 in the atmosphere will have little effect on temperatures. If Seinfeld and Kramer say otherwise, they are lying.
But let's say, for the sake of argument, that Seinfeld and Costanza are right, and "doubling CO2 from is present day concentration leads to a 10-20% increase in its total greenhouse effect". So what?! The total greenhouse effect is about 32 degrees C. CO2's share of that is 7-26%. Taking the midpoint of that range, 16.5%, and applying it to the total 32 degrees results in just 5.28 degrees C. That's how much of the current greenhouse effect can be blamed on CO2. If the level of atmospheric CO2 doubled, according to Seinfeld and Newman, the effect of CO2 would increase by just 10-20%. Again, taking the midpoint of that range, 15%, that's just 0.792 degrees C. That's how much global average annual temperatures would increase if atmospheric CO2 doubled.
Now, that may no sound like a lot. In fact, it's smaller than the margin by which your local TV weatherman misses tomorrow's temperature forecast. But if the global average temperature went up by that much, it could create some problems for us. But here's the thing. Atmospheric CO2 levels are currently about 400 parts per million (ppm). To double them, we would have to increase them by another 400 ppm, to a total 800 ppm. It took 150 years to double them from 200 ppm to 400 ppm. At that rate (about 1.33 ppm per year), it would take 300 years to double them again to 800 ppm. We don't have enough fossil fuels left to do that. Not in 300 years or 300,000 years. So, stop worrying.
It is better that you spend your time worrying about what will happen if we ban fossil fuels. After all, if the alarmists are right, that's the only way to stop global warming. What happens to the world's economy when we don't have gasoline to fuel our cars and diesel to fuel our trucks? Electric cars? Yeah, right! Even if they could come up with a viable
electric car, where do you think the electricity comes from? Coal, that's where! What happens when we can't grow enough food to feed the world because we can't use diesel in our tractors? What happens when people have to suffer through 100+ degree summers and subzero winters without air conditioning and home heating? What happens when China an India (now the number 1 and number 3 carbon dioxide emitters in the world) refuse to go along with any plan to stop global warming? How many people will die in that war? Will global warming even matter when they launch their nuclear missiles at us, or we launch ours at them?

A:
Sort of a qualifying statement: I do not support nor deny the claims of global warming, I wish to only better clarify a previous statement about ppm increase in CO2 over the last century or so. Now, to make a slight modification to what was said about the doubling of concentration of CO2 from 200 ppm to 400 ppm in 150 years, the main problem that has been posed is that the concentration increase is NOT linear. The 1.33 ppm increase per year is an average which is by no means incorrect, it is just slightly misleading. The overall year to year increase of CO2 concentration in our atmosphere is clearly not linear. As shown below in a decade by decade comparison of CO2 concentrations in our atmosphere.
Concentration (in ppm)
294 in 1900, 297 in 1910, 301 in 1920, 304 in 1930, 308 in 1940, 311 in 1950, 315 in 1960, 323 in 1970, 338 in 1980, 354 in 1990, 370 in 2000
The numbers from the above table are approximations taken from the global warming debunking site, http://brneurosci.org/co2.html
The graph the I pulled these numbers from is approximately half way down the site's page.

A:
To be precise, the current concentration of CO2 in the atmosphere is ~380ppm.
The above answers miss the point of anthropogenic induced global warming in a geological context. With data from ice cores, speleothemes (cave records) and other geochemical/geological records, we know that CO2 has been higher than it is today in geologically recent times, specifically around 12 thousand and 125 thousand years ago. At these times, there was much less ice, higher seas and weaker thermohaline circulation, the currents in the ocean driven primarily by cooling of surface waters at the poles. Earth has the ability to adjust these changes and life with it, because the changes occur over thousands of years.
The problem with the current increase in CO2 and associated warming is that it is happening very fast (in geological terms). Never before has such a sharp or drastic change in atmospheric chemistry occurred without an extreme catastrophic event like a volcanic eruption or cosmic impact. The main fear that earth scientists have is that the current changes may be so rapid that a runaway situation may occur and life and climatic systems will not be able to equilibrate. Rapid melting of continental ice in Greenland for example, may result in a fresh water cap on the north pacific, which would halt the thermohaline circulation (the gulf stream) and prevent warm equatorial waters from upwelling there. this occurred during the younger dryas, known as a Heinrich even, and resulted in the drastic cooling of Europe to arctic conditions similar to that of Siberia.
In essence, global warming resulting from increased CO2 may have any number of known and as yet unknown effects on the earth, many of which may be catastrophic for man kind. Once they occur, it will be too late to do any thing about them. For this reason, it is important that humanity acts as a whole to preserve the natural system on which we depend. It is important to regard scientific opinion with skepticism, because this maintains sciences integrity, but when faced with overwhelming evidence from many different sources, the skeptical argument becomes weaker, and should eventually be abandoned. We have reached that point with the issue of global climate change.

A:
A few tweaks:
The frequencies are not infinite. Frequencies are dictated by the energy of the photon. The energy of the photons are absorbed and emitted by electronics moving from one distance away from the nucleus (orbit) to an orbit closer to the nucleus. There is a finite number of orbits and a larger, but finite number of combinations of jumping from one orbit to another, some more common than others. This is an aspect of quantum theory.

Next, we may speak of saturation in which every IR photon is absorbed, but what can change is RE-absorption. At any given moment there is a probability that an absorbed IR photon will escape to space and the atmosphere will have given off that tiny quantum of heat energy. There is a second probability that the photon will be intercepted by another greenhouse gas atom. If you add more unsaturated atoms into the mix (such as doubling the CO2), you decrease the chances of the carbon dioxide escaping. That second atom can instead emit the heat out of the atmosphere or into a subsequent greenhouse gas atom. The more atoms, the more obstacles to the earth releasing heat. The same amount of IR can be retained more efficiently like adding another layer of clothing before you go outside. You have the same heat, but you keep more of it.

A:

From above:

"Never before has such a sharp or drastic change in atmospheric chemistry occurred without an extreme catastrophic event like a volcanic eruption or cosmic impact."

Two points on this. First, I note with satisfaction that the alarmists are no longer claiming that the rate of temperature increase is unprecedented. Only the sharp rise in CO2 (and even that is qualified, as explained in the second point). Fact is, no one really knows how rapidly temperatures rose in the past, because thermometers, as we know them, did not even exist until less than 300 years ago, and worldwide coverage was achieved less than 150 years ago. So we rely on so-called "proxy data" for pre-instrumental temperature records. But proxy data is not exact (though some, like isotope levels in ice cores, are closer than others, like tree rings). More importantly, all sets of proxy data are local, not global. There is no one single temperature proxy that covers the entire planet, so in order to come up with a global average temperature, you have to average together several completely different types of proxy data, which compounds the error geometrically. Fact is, we really don't know much about temperatures beyond 150 years ago, let alone how fast they rose or fell. However, it is worth noting that the most precise of all temperature proxies, isotope levels in ice cores (specifically from Vostok, Antarctica) show at least 13 periods in the last 10,000 years when temperatures rose faster than they are rising now (and 12 periods when temperatures fell faster). Of course, this is only local temperatures, and it doesn't tell us much about global temperatures. But that's my point. We don't know jack about global temperatures beyond the 150-year instrumental period.

Second, the contributor quoted above qualified his statement about drastic changes in atmospheric chemistry with the phrase "without an extreme catastrophic event like a volcanic eruption or cosmic impact". What he's saying is that only a "catastrophic event" can cause atmospheric chemistry to change as much as we are changing it now. But these catastrophic events happen all the time. Obviously, volcanic eruptions more often than cosmic impacts, but between the two, you can pretty much bank on one or two "catastrophic events" every thousand years. The key here is to think about what happened (or more importantly, did NOT happen) in response to the atmospheric changes brought about by these catastrophic events. Did they set off a runaway series of events that led to permanent hothouse or snowball Earth? No, they did not. And that is my point. The Earth's climate is dominated by negative feedbacks. If it wasn't, then every catastrophic event in the last 5 billion years would have resulted in either runaway warming or runaway cooling. But it didn't happen. The climate always recovered. Yes, the bigger the catastrophe, the longer it took to recover. The asteroid that hit off the coast of Mexico 70 million years ago took a long time to recover from. But Mount Saint Helens's eruption, not so long. To the extent that you can call mankind's pumping CO2 into the atmosphere a "catastrophe", it is much closer, in magnitude, to the Mount Saint Helens eruption than to the Yucatan impact. So forgive me if I'm not ate up with worry over it.

juandelacruz's picture

Hi G, Thanks for the

Hi G,

Thanks for the article. Where did you find it?

gretavo's picture

oops sorry

juandelacruz's picture

Africagate

I know AGW is a rather unpopular topic at WTCD, but I want to post what I think is the truth on this issue. Though AGW is not as nefarious as 9-11,  there are similarities in that we are being bamboozled to lend our support to a cause which is not for our benefit but that of vested interests who have control of the media or in this case, the "peer review process".

Since AGW is now facing very serious challenges, I am heartened that at least on this matter, info disseminated by bloggers are finally beating back the propaganda by misguided scientists and their well meaning but misinformed supporters.

 

And now for Africagate

Posted by Richard Sunday, February 07, 2010

Following an investigation by this blog (and with the story also told in The Sunday Times), another major "mistake" in the IPCC's benchmark Fourth Assessment Report has emerged.

Similar in effect to the erroneous "2035" claim – the year the IPCC claimed that Himalayan glaciers were going to melt – in this instance we find that the IPCC has wrongly claimed that in some African countries, yields from rain-fed agriculture could be reduced by up to 50 percent by 2020.

At best, this is a wild exaggeration, unsupported by any scientific research, referenced only to a report produced by a Canadian advocacy group, written by an obscure Moroccan academic who specialises in carbon trading, citing references which do not support his claims.

Unlike the glacier claim, which was confined to a section of the technical Working Group II report, this "50 percent by 2020" claim forms part of the key Synthesis Report, the production of which was the personal responsibility of the chair of the IPCC, Dr R K Pachauri. It has been repeated by him in many public fora. He, therefore, bears a personal responsibility for the error.
In this lengthy post, we examine the nature and background of this latest debacle, which is now under investigation by IPCC scientists and officials.

(continued at http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2010/02/and-now-for-africagate.html )

gretavo's picture

very interesting!

no need to apologize! :)