in need of some onion-layer peeling, Gretavo!

kate of the kiosk's picture

you're so good at it!

http://wedemandtransparency.com/javajackass.html

 

so why would Rupert Murdoch, who owns the NGChannel and the NY Post, allow Sander Hicks to sound off?

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willyloman's picture

why indeed...

"But the Niels Harrit evidence is never cited. That would be too real."

"Too real"? We'll see...

"The future is not inherited, it is achieved." JFK

gretavo's picture

ok lemme try!

I don't really doubt for a second that Sander Hicks is a fake truther, so I'll just recap what I think it means to be a fake truther, and in this context specifically. Fake truthers are intended to serve as "leaders" in order to control the movement to prevent it from ever developing a life of its own. Of course it has a life of its own regardless, so we do make progress, like embracing controlled demolition to the point where LIHOPpers are laughed at and dismissed as shills now. As the truth movement evolves and expresses itself indepedently of the fake truthers' attempts to influence it, the fake truthers risk losing credibility if they don't keep up. Some fake truthers are lost causes, like Nico Haupt and Jim Fetzer, but the directors of the cover-up (directors, as in a film) seem to think ol' Sander may yet be of some use. So Murdoch helps kill two birds with one stone--run a hit piece offering up Sander as meat for debunkers (think they could do naughty things with that pic of Sander on the NYPost site? I know I could but I don't want to give him the publicity...) and snide headline writers while raising his visibility in the truth movement. Similarly, Fetzer appeared several times on Murdoch's Hannity and Colmes, as have Kevin Barrett and Jesse Ventura (all of whom I am sad to say I suspect of being at the very least used by the directors of the coverup.) It's all about controlling the truth movement by throwing it little bones here and there, and it's interesting to note that Eric Hufschmid's sister's father in law (Rupert Murdoch) is doing so much of the throwing.

kate of the kiosk's picture

yup, Gretavo

my suspicions run along similar lines, but I have more difficulty elucidating and converting them into words. 

Fake truther Sander may be of some use...has to keep up...that picture is atrociously derogatory and would never be the image of someone we would want to represent the real movement...murdoch kills 2 birds the second being on raising sander's visibility.  although i like KB a lot, am worried about his notoriety. why doesn't he draw more semitic or far eastern muslims into his limelight. as an aside, as far as matters of faith go, i just feel people are what they were raised, even though they may embrace good tenets of other faith doctrines, they should hold fast to the best of their own. that's just my personal opinion.

these "fake" truthers are always so over the top.

wild about EH and Murdoch connection...not surprised. scum. 

 

gretavo's picture

I think the same thing is behind the hullaballoo about Van Jones

Suddenly the media decide to make a big stink about the fact that Jones, an Obama appointee, signed 911truth.org's statement from 2004--a statement so LIHOPpy that Jon Gold is pimping it over at blogger:

|

911truth.org Statement to the Press

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20090904181706887

September 4, 2009

Numerous media outlets have contacted 911truth.org, asking us to "make sense" of Van Jones' "strange" behavior. We have issued the following statement:

As the eighth anniversary of 9/11 approaches, what doesn't make sense to us is that media outlets choose to impugn the character of the signatories rather than carry out your responsibility as watchdogs to call attention to the as yet unanswered questions raised in the 2004 statement. Five years later, we challenge you to finally print those same unanswered questions and pursue their answers with the same vigor with which you pursue the signatories.

We are overwhelmed by all the messages of support that we have received in the last 24 hours. We apologize that we can not possibly respond to each individual message, but please know we do read each one and are grateful for your support. For those of you asking what you can do to help, we encourage you to use the questions of this 2004 Statement as talking points for calls to your local media outlets and national call-in programs, and letters to the editors. Perhaps with your help, we can finally get answers to these lingering questions. Thank you.

 

For readers' convenience, following is the actual Truth Statement signed onto by Van Jones in 2004, currently being discussed in the media.

The Statement

We Want Real Answers About 9/11

On August 31, 2004, Zogby International, the official North American political polling agency for Reuters, released a poll that found nearly half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of those in New York state believe US leaders had foreknowledge of impending 9/11 attacks and "consciously failed" to act. Of the New York City residents, 66% called for a new probe of unanswered questions by Congress or the New York Attorney General.

In connection with this news, we have assembled 100 notable Americans and 40 family members of those who died to sign this 9/11 Statement, which calls for immediate public attention to unanswered questions that suggest that people within the current administration may indeed have deliberately allowed 9/11 to happen, perhaps as a pretext for war.

We want truthful answers to questions such as:

  1. Why were standard operating procedures for dealing with hijacked airliners not followed that day?
  2. Why were the extensive missile batteries and air defenses reportedly deployed around the Pentagon not activated during the attack?
  3. Why did the Secret Service allow Bush to complete his elementary school visit, apparently unconcerned about his safety or that of the schoolchildren?
  4. Why hasn't a single person been fired, penalized, or reprimanded for the gross incompetence we witnessed that day?
  5. Why haven't authorities in the U.S. and abroad published the results of multiple investigations into trading that strongly suggested foreknowledge of specific details of the 9/11 attacks, resulting in tens of millions of dollars of traceable gains?
  6. Why has Sibel Edmonds, a former FBI translator who claims to have knowledge of advance warnings, been publicly silenced with a gag order requested by Attorney General Ashcroft and granted by a Bush-appointed judge?
  7. How could Flight 77, which reportedly hit the Pentagon, have flown back towards Washington D.C. for 40 minutes without being detected by the FAA's radar or the even superior radar possessed by the US military?
  8. How were the FBI and CIA able to release the names and photos of the alleged hijackers within hours, as well as to visit houses, restaurants, and flight schools they were known to frequent?
  9. What happened to the over 20 documented warnings given our government by 14 foreign intelligence agencies or heads of state?
  10. Why did the Bush administration cover up the fact that the head of the Pakistani intelligence agency was in Washington the week of 9/11 and reportedly had $100,000 wired to Mohamed Atta, considered the ringleader of the hijackers?
  11. Why did the 911 Commission fail to address most of the questions posed by the families of the victims, in addition to almost all of the questions posed here?
  12. Why was Philip Zelikow chosen to be the Executive Director of the ostensibly independent 911 Commission although he had co-authored a book with Condoleezza Rice?

Those who are demanding deeper inquiry now number in the hundreds of thousands, including a former member of the first Bush administration, a retired Air Force colonel, a European parliamentarian, families of the victims, highly respected authors, investigative journalists, peace and justice leaders, former Pentagon staff, and the National Green Party.

 

As Americans of conscience, we ask for four things:

  1. An immediate investigation by New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer
  2. Immediate investigation in Congressional Hearings.
  3. Media attention to scrutinize and investigate the evidence.
  4. The formation of a truly independent citizens-based inquiry.

Given the importance of the coming election, we feel it is imperative that these questions be addressed publicly, honestly, and rigorously so that Americans may exercise their democratic rights with full awareness.

 

In closing, we pray and hope for the strength to approach this subject with wisdom and compassion so that we may heal from the wounds inflicted on that terrible day.

Signed,

Signatories

(Original 2004 Truth Statement still posted here.)

So again, best of both worlds for the real perps--the MSM can preach to the sheep about those awful truthers, and the fake truthers can spread 911truth.org's LIHOP message far and wide as if it was what the MSM are "really" afraid of.  And all around the anniversary, when 911truth gets the most attention from the public it does all year...  Yeah, this isn't all part of a script... ha!

kate of the kiosk's picture

911truth.org

can't seem to get on today...

also www.justicefor911.org where there is the 2 part petition signed by

over 16,000, which is linked up on the lefthand side of www.911truth.org

 

Chris's picture

Sander Hicks response

I looked at those silly posts. They don't actually make accusations
based on facts, just hunches. Weak arguments. Not really worth my time.
I'm pretty busy right now working my ass off on this conference. http://www.wedemandtransparency.com

My record speaks for itself. Eight years of dedication to
scientific, professional, historically-informed 9/11 truth work.  I
have always been careful to slowly consider new theories like
controlled demolition. LIHOP is a term used in 2006, and only sectarian
dogmatists use it now. But I'm not LIHOP. Google
and actually READ my stuff on Dr. Graham, it's cutting edge and
completely MIHOP, but from an independent way of thinking: the Federal
protection pattern given to Al Hazmi and Al Mihdhar. I think these
trolls hate someone who walks their own path. It's just like socialist
organizations, they hate individuals. Fuck your group think. Doing the
hard work of digging into the history of intelligence is beyond some of
these intellectual lightweight internet trolls.

I wasn't an instant disciple of controlled demo, but have come
around to fully endorse these theories. I have Richard Gage and Erik
Lawyer speaking at my conference. A lot of internet trolls can
anonymously say what they want. It doesn't bother me so I won't post
there personally. I don't take it personally. They haven't met me. I'm
willing to talk to anyone, face to face. Are these people coming to
NYC? To http://www.wedemandtransparency.com
? To debate in the open?  Or are they going to sit on their fat butts
in their honeycomb hideouts and slag activists and people who have
actually put their asses on the line. The internet isn't really all
that effective for slander, because anyone can say anything, and you
can hide behind pseudonyms. You are talking to the truther who
confronted Cheney, Spitzer, Hauer, Ben-Veniste, Giuliani and the
Shreveport FBI. What the fuck have YOU done?

I'm New York City's only 9/11 truth author. I got in the NY Post
twice, once I was ridiculed, once I was given a chance to speak fairly.
I'm happy about the latter. I think it shows we're winning. Good luck
to all truth people of good intent. I have to go back to work on putting together the most mind-blowing 9/11 truth conference ever, We Demand Transparency. http://www.wedemandtransparency.com

S

kate of the kiosk's picture

put their asses on the line/trolls

gretavo has .... Boston/Harvard ...every day, man

 

trolls?

so happy you have come around to demolition, Sander. stay with it.

kate of the kiosk's picture

so chris

why doesn't sander join us for real?? that would be something!

Chris's picture

I asked him why he wouldnt

I asked him why he wouldnt just post himself and debate the issues, and he basically said he didnt have the time and asked me to post his response for him. He did say he registered here though.

Im all about getting so called 9/11 truth "leaders"(self appointed or otherwise) on the record and confronting them with our concerns, be it Hicks or Griffin or anybody else. I was really hoping Sander would drop in and "go at it" with gretavo and others who share his concerns. I share many of the same concerns.

It doesnt do us much good to just preach to the choir here, when possible, we should be asking 9/11 "leaders" and activists why they push what they push and why they ignore what they seem to ignore. We shouldnt be afraid to say directly to these people what we say on these boards. Its too bad Sander only left it at a statement and doesnt want to debate. Though at least now he knows people are paying attention right? :-) 

Jpass's picture

Sander and Jordon Green did

Sander and Jordon Green did responded to my questions when I confronted him back in late 2007 regarding The Graham Report.

http://sander.gnn.tv/blogs/26276/FBI_Special_Agent_Stephen_Hayes_Intervi...

My nick was War_Profiteer and you can browse the comments where I ask questions and sort of get answers from Hicks and his collaborator, Jordon Green.

Bottom line...the report has some fabulous claims which ARE NOT backed by fabulous facts. The authors, Hicks and Green, know this but don't care.

The question, IMHO, now becomes "Why is someone pimping information that is easily debunked and quite suspiciously supportive of the anti-Muslim based official excuse for 9/11/2001 attacks?"

If someone was pimping information about Space Beams and TV Fakery we would call obvious shenanigans on them. We'd question why they would pimp obvious disinformation.

So why is it that this nutty theory about Dr. Graham is allowed to continue on? Why is Sander not confronted by the self-appointed disinformation police of the 911 Truth movement? Surely Arabesque can see how ridiculous The Graham Report is!

The Graham Report stands alone and Sander doesn't need to be present for his information to be debated and debunked.

And speaking of Sander not wanting to debate his information...

When does Sander Hicks expect his information to be vetted by others? How does this work? I guess we just wait around until Sander has the time to defend the validity of his claims?

Those are rhetorical questions. The information has already been debated and debunked. Sander's absence from the debate is meaningless.

Chris's picture

I coudnt agree with you more

I coudnt agree with you more about the Graham report. Though I think Sanders absence from the debate has some meaning. My point pretty much was-say it to these peoples faces(online or in person) instead of to the few who post here-it'll likely have more impact. Jeez, dont shoot the fucking messenger.

Jpass's picture

yo chris

I wasn't directing that too you man. Just sort of throwing it out there.

Jpass's picture

Dr. Graham

I have read "The Graham Report" in it's entirety on more then one occasion. To categorize The Graham Report as 'cutting edge' is more then a stretch of the author's imagination.

The Graham report is nothing more then the delusional rantings of a paranoid old man who most definitely had an anti-Muslim /anti-Arab streak that.

Graham's racist and delusional expressions are encountered throughout the Graham Report and, IMO, anyone who pushes the Graham Report as 'cutting edge' has either not read the full document or goes by the name of Sander Hicks.

The story of Dr. Graham belo0ngs with space beams and tv fakery.

Choice selections from The Graham Report

“After reporting to the Hotline, I sensed in my spirit an unpleasant, building distain for Muslims. Uncontrollable. My entanglement with the suspicious middle-Easterners, in particular, was seeding this resentment. Keep an open mind? Next to impossible.”



"Though Agent Ray Spoon had Graham’s handwritten notes in hand, he continued to do a thorough job of testing Graham’s memory. Graham had good recall on the general story from months earlier, but had no immediate recall of the exact names of the three middle-Easterners living at Jamal’s townhouse."

After September 11, 2001 America had every right to attack the terrorist training camps in Afghanistan, then proceed with shared intelligence to attack the terror enclaves of Iraq while eliminating the “new
Hitler” Saddam Hussein and his two emotionally disturbed sons.

Between these two battlefronts, many millions of tortured and abused citizens of Afghanistan and Iraq were liberated to decide the structure of their new governments.

And another important questions for Sander and Dr. Graham...

If Dr. Graham was hot on the trail of Arabs plotting evil in Louisiana and if Graham gave all his notes to the FBI, why didn't he provide 'notes' that contained the weird names he saw?

You're telling me he took meticulous notes but just forgot to notate the most important details of the entire story?

Graham goes to the FBI and turns in all his notes which DON'T contain the evil Arab names that resulted in this entire Graham report.

There is not one single source that corroborates the claim that Dr. Graham had the name's of alleged hijackers before 9/11/2001.

Not one single source.

I say again...

TV Faker, Space Beams and The Graham Report belong in the same garbage bin

gretavo's picture

what a pathetic response

not surprising--what a complete and utter fake.

larry horse's picture

thanks for calling out Barrett

something smells like a muskie.

gretavo's picture

yeah, you know what it is?

To me it's that he says so many things that I like (like calling out the shenanigans at 911blogger), and then on the other hand says a lot of stupid stuff and embraces people like Fetzer and Sander Hicks. Which makes me understand what a hungry fish must feel when it realizes that fat, juicy nightcrawler is wrapped around a barbed metal hook. He must be like DAMN, I sure am hungry but WTF?

Jpass's picture

This is Sander.

  • Delmart Vreeland
  • Randy Glass
  • Dr. Graham & The Graham Report
  • The Big Wedding - Forward written by fake lefty and ex-State Department propagandist, Anthony Lappe'.
  • Sander on the 5th Anniversary of 9/11/2001 attacks:

    "...controlled demolition is a bit of a straw dog. “Loose Change” is a well-edited, quickly paced 9/11 theory overview with good music. But it tends to incorporate the more esoteric of the many 9/11 conspiracy theories available.

    Like the once-popular “no plane hit the Pentagon” theory, controlled demolition is a tall order."

gretavo's picture

exactly...

Are we to believe he was confused before? And that he has seen the error of his ways? Ha! Not only is he fake but anyone promoting him (this means you, Kevin Barrett) can pretty safely also be assumed to be fake. And let me just say--I know there are those who claim that accusing all these people of being fake makes us divisive or paranoid or whatever, but I'm sorry. It is not the least bit surprising that infiltrators and would-be controllers are heavily represented in the truth movement--it would be shocking for that not to be the case given how important the cover-up is, and how sophisticated the real perps are capable of making it given the sophistication of the attacks themselves.

I know I've said this before, but it bears repetition as a useful analogy. How many times have we seen, especially in science fiction, a scene where one of the good guys is being impersonated by a perfectly convincing impostor, resulting in a denoument where all the chips are at stake and the other good guys must decide which one is real? Both swear they are the real one, but the good guys know one of them MUST be a fake, and must decide. Normally what happens is the bad guy finally says or does something that makes the deception apparent. This kind of revelation happens ALL the time in the truth movement--people going Fetzal, jumping a shark or two, etc. The problem is that we're not dealing with a simplified choice between two individuals--we are dealing with entire teams who multiply their numbers with fake, yes, FAKE, identities also known as sock puppets. Only a handful of the people who post on both blogger and true faction use the same name in both. This is yet another example of ostensible diversity masking actual uniformity and it is among the most useful tools the fake truthers have at their disposal, the other of course being that they are in cahoots with the mainstream media who can give them little "victories" here and their to raise their standing among unwitting real truthers.

Chris's picture

Help!

Ok, I emailed Sander a link to this thread this morning and asked him to come by and have his say. He said he signed up and is still waiting, but in the meantime he told me to post a response for him. Only problem, I have Mozilla/Firefox and it says I cant copy and paste on this website(its a fairly long response that I would rather not type out myself). Anybody know how I can correct this quickly without downloading anything? Keep in mind I'm pretty stupid when it comes to computers.

Jpass's picture

"I have Mozilla/Firefox and

"I have Mozilla/Firefox and it says I cant copy and paste on this website"

I'm guessing this is an option within your Firefox browser settings. I use Firefox and copy/paste just fine.

Mind if I ask why the haste in posting Sander's response for him?

His account should be ok'd soon if he's applied for one.

Chris's picture

Why the haste? I have to

Why the haste? I have to leave for work in a few minutes so I was trying to get a quick response. No big deal, I'll let him post it himself if he finds the time or I'll just type it out myself later or tomorrow. Or were you implying something else with that question? :-)

Jpass's picture

no

Hey Chris,
I wasn't implying anything besides that I was curious and that posting someone else's response for them is probably not the best idea.

willyloman's picture

Strange...

"I have Mozilla/Firefox and it says I cant copy and paste on this website"

I use Mozilla/Firefox and I just copied and pasted your comment...

"The future is not inherited, it is achieved." JFK

gretavo's picture

that's weird, cause...

I've been having trouble signing into 911Blogger and Truthaction for a couple of years now--almost like I'm not welcome to post there... I wonder if something similar is happening here? :)

seriously tho, you can email me at rt atta wtcdemolition daughter compost and I can post it...

Annoymouse's picture

Holy Smokey Links! ProStink has a tourbus!