which is somewhat more negative than I would have put it myself. The thing is, there is obviously negative PR baggage attached to this idea AND the kind of evidence that it would produce would be very weak. I'm tired of squinting at inconclusive photos.
Submitted by juandelacruz on Fri, 2010-07-02 22:13.
Yes it may be perceived as insensitive, on the other hand we are numb to news of predator drone attacks in Pakistan, and the daily carnage in Afghanistan and Iraq. Continuing to attack those countries is i think a worse offense than dishonoring the already dead passengers, if they really are dead.
These alleged passengers, if found still alive and incognito are guilty of conpiracy in 9-11. If we have doubts about other actors, like who exactly wired wtc, we are left guessing, but who pretended to be airline passengers - we have names. If you want to question suspects with connections to the plotters, these guys did. They just have to be found.
Love the idea. Gotta disagree with you Casseia, bad PR is something we will always live with until we are in the majority. Some of the "hijackers" turned up alive, I'm willing to bet some of the passengers might as well(more stolen ID's like the "hijackers"?)
We have been told that there were four flights that experienced
hijackings on September 11, 2001. We have not been shown anything close
to conclusive evidence that these flights boarded, took off, flew, and
crashed that day. Instead it has been suggested that it is wrong to question the official version of events, for various reasons. Among them, the idea that to do so is extremely upsetting to the families of the alleged victims. With my sincerest dommages to any legitimate victim's family members to whom our skepticism causes emotional discomfort, here are a few possible categories, beginning with the official version...
The OCT:
All the passengers named in the official story are real people who really died when their planes were really crashed by real fanatical arab muslim hijackers. They are to be honored, respected, and commemorated and (obviously) never have their legitimacy questioned.
The "Loose Change" version aka the Cleveland Swap version: At least one of the real 9/11 flights with real passengers actually landed somewhere, where the real passengers were killed by the real perpetrators, whoever they may have been (but probably the CIA, which also pretends to be al Qaeda. Or they might have been gassed, possibly through the on board margarine cup/enema bag emergency air system. Think Northwoods. Think alBushCiada.
The "everything is fake" version: The passengers who are not "famous" i.e. known to the public to have definitely existed before 9/11, are fictional people--little more than names on a piece of paper. By offering Victim Compensation Fund payouts to anyone who lost a close relative (or claimed to) on 9/11, the perps could have the U.S. taxpayer bankroll their bribery of people to make the legal claim of the fictional passengers' existence. And still the four 9/11 flights were supposed to have been on average a mere 30% occupied (which incidentally means it would be carrying less fuel than if it were overbooked). The "flight manifests" that are publicly available are not originals, or even copies of originals, they are lists of names on a printout from some computer, so we can presume that the real manifests don't exist. The famous passengers like Barbara Olson are either still alive or have died at some point in the years since 9/11 (including by possible foul play). Faking your death is the best way to avoid paying taxes, and probably offers many people a welcome new lease on life as it were.
to encourage people you don't know to stalk people, especially a group of people that may include genuine victims and their families even if it also includes many frauds.
Submitted by juandelacruz on Sun, 2010-07-04 05:21.
Yes that may backfire badly. The perps may send one of their ops to pretend to be a truther, pick out a lookalike from the pictures, then harass the lookalike "airline passenger". Very bad publicity for real truthers.
Another caveat is that the perps may be obliged to take out any "surviving" passenger that is positively identified through this exercise. Even if we should find none of them, the perps may still be obliged by our efforts to completely silence any "surviving" passengers.
I declare this idea totally not fitting of our actions or endorsement. Bad idea.
So the perps may kill some of the patsies and thats why we shouldn't do it? The perps may kill US too if we keep pursuing 9/11 so maybe we should stop! :-)
Hate to break it to you, but again-the 9/11 movement already has bad PR. Self censorship is futile. NOT blindly blaming arabs for 9/11 is all that most Americans need to be disgusted with us. And to not pursue the truth of a situation because the perps might lash out is no reason to back down imho. We should follow the truth wherever it goes.
Should we ignore all the witnesses who felt/heard explosions? How about the ones that claim they DIDN'T see Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? The perps surely don't like that. I refuse to play by the media or the perps rules. If I had the money and time I would seek out the family members of those allegedly on board the flights along with "surviving passengers" themselves. NOT to "stalk", just to verify some basic facts that our media has failed to. How many family members of victims on the planes have you seen giving interviews other than neocon and Bush campaigner Debra Burlingame?
Oh, I forgot about Ted Olson, the guy who said in front of the Supreme Court-"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information". "It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete or even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests".
So are we to accept the official story of what went down on the flights as given to us by the likes of this guy? Lets not forget it was his alleged phonecall with his wife that birthed the "muslims with boxcutters" crap. No thanks, I would rather professional liars not set the narrative.
Submitted by juandelacruz on Mon, 2010-07-05 13:40.
Hi Chris, I would rather that the truth be pursued aggressively. But if we post pictures then ask people to seek them out, we may be setting ourselves up for exploitation by the same perps that we are trying to stop.
9/11 TV News Archive Streaming video of all major network news coverage on 9/11/01
Dr. David Ray Griffin A website documenting the work of the most credible and widely respected author on the truth about 9/11.
9/11 Unveiled by Enver Masud Free PDF of an excellent and concise book summarizing the case against the official story.
David Chandler's YouTube Channel Must watch videos analyzing the explosive demolition of the twin towers and WTC7, produced by high school physics teacher David Chandler whose work forced a revision to NIST's final report on the WTC.
Center for an Informed America Excellent analysis by Dave McGowan on 9/11 and other controversial subjects. This link is to McGowan's 2004 analysis of 9/11 and the state of the truth movement at that time.
Council for the National Interest Group founded by Congressmen Paul Findley and Paul McCloskey to promote pro-American (instead of exclusively pro-Israeli) middle east policies in the U.S. government.
Popular Mechanics: "Debunking 9/11 Myths" The most often cited critique of 9/11 Truth, or defense of the official version of events. Fails to address most real concerns adequately.
Money Masters Documentary on the corrupt money system
I voted "bad idea"
which is somewhat more negative than I would have put it myself. The thing is, there is obviously negative PR baggage attached to this idea AND the kind of evidence that it would produce would be very weak. I'm tired of squinting at inconclusive photos.
Yes it may be perceived as
Yes it may be perceived as insensitive, on the other hand we are numb to news of predator drone attacks in Pakistan, and the daily carnage in Afghanistan and Iraq. Continuing to attack those countries is i think a worse offense than dishonoring the already dead passengers, if they really are dead.
These alleged passengers, if found still alive and incognito are guilty of conpiracy in 9-11. If we have doubts about other actors, like who exactly wired wtc, we are left guessing, but who pretended to be airline passengers - we have names. If you want to question suspects with connections to the plotters, these guys did. They just have to be found.
-
double post
Love the idea. Gotta
Love the idea. Gotta disagree with you Casseia, bad PR is something we will always live with until we are in the majority. Some of the "hijackers" turned up alive, I'm willing to bet some of the passengers might as well(more stolen ID's like the "hijackers"?)
different kinds of "passenger fakery"
We have been told that there were four flights that experienced
hijackings on September 11, 2001. We have not been shown anything close
to conclusive evidence that these flights boarded, took off, flew, and
crashed that day. Instead it has been suggested that it is wrong to question the official version of events, for various reasons. Among them, the idea that to do so is extremely upsetting to the families of the alleged victims. With my sincerest dommages to any legitimate victim's family members to whom our skepticism causes emotional discomfort, here are a few possible categories, beginning with the official version...
The OCT:
All the passengers named in the official story are real people who really died when their planes were really crashed by real fanatical arab muslim hijackers. They are to be honored, respected, and commemorated and (obviously) never have their legitimacy questioned.
The "Loose Change" version aka the Cleveland Swap version: At least one of the real 9/11 flights with real passengers actually landed somewhere, where the real passengers were killed by the real perpetrators, whoever they may have been (but probably the CIA, which also pretends to be al Qaeda. Or they might have been gassed, possibly through the on board margarine cup/enema bag emergency air system. Think Northwoods. Think alBushCiada.
The "everything is fake" version: The passengers who are not "famous" i.e. known to the public to have definitely existed before 9/11, are fictional people--little more than names on a piece of paper. By offering Victim Compensation Fund payouts to anyone who lost a close relative (or claimed to) on 9/11, the perps could have the U.S. taxpayer bankroll their bribery of people to make the legal claim of the fictional passengers' existence. And still the four 9/11 flights were supposed to have been on average a mere 30% occupied (which incidentally means it would be carrying less fuel than if it were overbooked). The "flight manifests" that are publicly available are not originals, or even copies of originals, they are lists of names on a printout from some computer, so we can presume that the real manifests don't exist. The famous passengers like Barbara Olson are either still alive or have died at some point in the years since 9/11 (including by possible foul play). Faking your death is the best way to avoid paying taxes, and probably offers many people a welcome new lease on life as it were.
Any others?
it's always a bad idea
to encourage people you don't know to stalk people, especially a group of people that may include genuine victims and their families even if it also includes many frauds.
on second thought it is a bad idea
Yes that may backfire badly. The perps may send one of their ops to pretend to be a truther, pick out a lookalike from the pictures, then harass the lookalike "airline passenger". Very bad publicity for real truthers.
Another caveat is that the perps may be obliged to take out any "surviving" passenger that is positively identified through this exercise. Even if we should find none of them, the perps may still be obliged by our efforts to completely silence any "surviving" passengers.
I declare this idea totally not fitting of our actions or endorsement. Bad idea.
So the perps may kill some
So the perps may kill some of the patsies and thats why we shouldn't do it? The perps may kill US too if we keep pursuing 9/11 so maybe we should stop! :-)
Hate to break it to you,
Hate to break it to you, but again-the 9/11 movement already has bad PR. Self censorship is futile. NOT blindly blaming arabs for 9/11 is all that most Americans need to be disgusted with us. And to not pursue the truth of a situation because the perps might lash out is no reason to back down imho. We should follow the truth wherever it goes.
Should we ignore all the witnesses who felt/heard explosions? How about the ones that claim they DIDN'T see Flight 77 hit the Pentagon? The perps surely don't like that. I refuse to play by the media or the perps rules. If I had the money and time I would seek out the family members of those allegedly on board the flights along with "surviving passengers" themselves. NOT to "stalk", just to verify some basic facts that our media has failed to. How many family members of victims on the planes have you seen giving interviews other than neocon and Bush campaigner Debra Burlingame?
Oh, I forgot about Ted
Oh, I forgot about Ted Olson, the guy who said in front of the Supreme Court-"It's easy to imagine an infinite number of situations where the government might legitimately give out false information". "It's an unfortunate reality that the issuance of incomplete or even misinformation by government may sometimes be perceived as necessary to protect vital interests".
So are we to accept the official story of what went down on the flights as given to us by the likes of this guy? Lets not forget it was his alleged phonecall with his wife that birthed the "muslims with boxcutters" crap. No thanks, I would rather professional liars not set the narrative.
Hi Chris, I would rather
Hi Chris, I would rather that the truth be pursued aggressively. But if we post pictures then ask people to seek them out, we may be setting ourselves up for exploitation by the same perps that we are trying to stop.
risk
i would have guessed the perps wouldn't leave anyone alive if they didn't have to (i.e. themselves)